Oh, also, not sure if we can include 77/88 in his 3b range. They're not very common in a live game ime, but he is a rampant 3better, so he may have a couple combos of those as well.

FWIW this is the same opponent who Bart Hanson talked about in a couple of HHs in a recent podcast. I believe he talked about overlimping KK in a 5/10 game then backraising when someone raised, and this Villain almost bluff 4 or 5? bet but eventually folded. He also did a HH with same Villain about a 10/20nl hand. For those of you who listen to his podcast.

Folding river is best IMO. We rep nothing. He would have to be a drooler to go for the shove.

Do you like 4b pre ANL?

I don't think shipping river is bad, I mean we have blockers to the nuts and can definitely have the nuts in our range

If you 4bet pf you gotta be willing to stack off with TT

At 100xbb 4bet/call isn't bad. At 200xbb a 4b/5b here is a much different story (obv we would be sticking it in) and seems like a lot more history is required.

If villain knows we are isoing and is 3betting pretty wide, I don't get why we would be folding a lot of hands like JTs pf we are IP and pretty deep

of course we are probably stabbing at the flop with all of our bluffs.

Do you ever (or usually?) limp the button with 10Js in this spot? I'm not advocating it, I'm just saying if he's observant, he might discount you holding 10Js if your standard play is to limp the button with other limpers ahead of you and a suited connector in hand.

LOL. Is Villain in this hand named Zach Freeman? Tall white guy in his early 30s with internet poker experience and a 1-year old som? If so, this hand must have taken place at Hollywood Park 5/10 NL, right?

I disagree with your image of Villain's 3-betting tendencies.. He is not a rampant 3-bettor, even if he does a wide value 3-bet range versus LP raisers. He does have some 3-bet bluffs in his range, but he is hardly a 3-bet monkey.

I do agree with the rest of your characterization a of him being a relatively good thinking player.

In any case, I still recommend that you shove river.

Sorry, I mis-read your post.

You must have meant Kunuk, the young aggressive Asian kid who always sits really deep. He also played several sessions on Live at the Bike in the past several months. He definitely mashes the 3-bet button excessively.

Shove this against Kunuk all day along.

If you 4-bet TT here, you better snap-call it off against a 5-bet because Kunuk does have a 5-bet bluff shoving range.

In this particular hand, however, I am leanings towards him having a hand from his 3-bet value range. Even though he does 3-bet bluff a ton, I would say that he has a legitimate hand this time.

I don't really want to say on a public forum how/why I know this.

Yea ATsai, you have the right Villain. This was a 5/10 game at the bike, not the show.

Ty for the input tho.

And yes, obv if I 4b I have to 4b/c vs this villain

Given that I think Villain has a value 3-bet hand here, I think calling IN POSITION is better than 4-betting preflop.

Not really too much. And we only played together for ~45 minutes.

Do I know you ATsai?

would bet the flop some of the time depending on image and opponents willingness to take non standard lines and make his range less transparent. Against most TAG regs I'm probably betting the flop trying to get one or two streets of value on lots of run outs, and turning my hand into a bluff on others.

as played this looks like a really easy fold. you simply don't rep enough after checking back the flop for a shove to be great. If villain is folding most of the top of his range to a shove on the river then he either thinks you are incapable of bluffing in this spot or he's simply a huge nit that won't get it in without the nuts and can't hand read. the villain you described in OP does not sound like that kind of player.

+1 for betting otf

What did you end up doing? Any more decision points to discuss?

Briefly thought about jamming, never thought about calling, ended up folding

Calling would be spew. A lot of things would have to line up for this to be a jam, like no history with villain or have a passivish image, villain can make big laydowns on the river with a lot in the pot already, you can credibly rep JTo in your raising BTN over 2 limpers range, ect.

Turn might be a fold. Doubt he is barreling turn with A high once the flop checks through and he would've bet with worse than A high on the flop. I also think betting flop once he checks is probably best.

Really? I think he bets Ahi ott a fair amt, considering that I know he is a fan of delayed cbets.

Yea, I never considered calling river. I still don't understand betting flop with a tight image and no dynamic.

Haven't heard anything that's really convinced me, but I could be wrong of course.

As far as river jam, yea we have no history, and I have a tight image, and live regs often find folds against other live regs, so it could be good. I guess fold>jam>>>call?

Sure I would iso those 2 limps with J10o.

Image-wise, I am sure that shove>fold>call because Villain probably views you as a solid TAG 5/5 NL reg taking shots at 5/10 NL.

Given your clean image, he would never suspect that you are capable of a huge river bluff-raise here. He would reason that you would have to be a 5/10 NL+ grinder to make that play on him. So the fact that you grind 5/5 NL at Bike would have sold your bluff to him.

This Villain has made some nitty lay downs on LATB even against young unknown Asians, so he would have probably given you credit this time.

As stated earlier, you are prepping a somewhat narrow but plausible range by shoving river. As long as he thinks that JTs is in your preflop range, I think a shove works here very often.

I think the biggest problem with bluffing river is that he's probably not going to put JTo in your flatting his 3-bet range, so all that really leaves is JTs. And when you rep such a narrow range ppl get really curious(I know I do).

Idk it seems to me that betting with A high ott is bad because you're not getting folds from anything better. If you were planning to turn A high into a bluff the street to do it is on the flop so you can fire the turn and get folds from pocket pairs. Also I think there are some weak Qs that he can be checking flop with.

Turning your hand into a bluff otf seems like a decent option since we are deep and his range is capped at weak Qs and JJ. Firing multiple barrels obv.