5-10 150BB deep first hand at the table
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 207
I was coming into this table tilted, I had just lost a 3k 5/5 pot a villian called me down with AK on a K hi and backdoored a flush that he didnt even see.
Hero SB- Plays at this casino. 65% 5/5 35% 5/10. Has logged 30 hours with the main villain who is a reg. He probably views me as spewy as he watched me spew off a 6k stack in what I thought were 2 good bluff spots about a month ago. ($1500)
Villain 1 Button: reg in this game, dark skin (probably indian) 20's with Dre Beats head phones. Plays pots, have not seen him get out of line too much. (covers)
Villain 2 : Unknown 40's white male (Covers)
Folds to (MP) V2 who opens to: 55
(Button) V1: Calls
(SB) Hero: QcQd 3 bets to 195
BB folds
V2: Calls
V1: Calls
Flop: Pot $665
Kd Jd 9d
Hero: checks (which in hindsight is a mistake)
V2: Bets $310
V1: calls
Hero: shoves for 1k more
Thoughts?
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 416
Has the standard open been 5.5x?
3-bet bigger pre. Hate the c/shove otf - c/c and see a turn.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 90
225 or so pre, as played leading 1/3 pot... Do not like check shoving here at all.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,023
Bigger pre. Check flop. Over call when it goes 325/call. What does shoving flop accomplish?
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 11,841
dont play tilted. 225 pre. flop check is good. call flop.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,087
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 207
My thoughts in game were that I could shove and fold out some top pair hands that don't have the A of diamonds.
If I call flop out of position, are we only continuing if we make a flush or a straight.
It's very unlikely that anyone flopped a flush, but pretty likely someone has the ace of diamonds.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,416
I like your check shove line. Is my following logic bad?
Kx hands might fold. And if they call our equity is fine unless they have KQ and even then it's not terrible.
Ad will probably call and we will be ahead unless their other card is a J then we'd be about a flip.
Td may call and we'll be ahead.
Sets and 2pairs will call and our equity is okay. Some players might lay down J9 or K9 sometimes.
We are only in really bad shape against made nut flushes, and AK with A of diamonds. Our opponents can't have AQdd which is nice, and many players would've 3bet or 4bet if they had AK, so that hand should be less likely. We are also not in very good shape against a made flush or straight but drawing reasonably well against either that it isn't a complete disaster.
If we lead flop and get raised or called, I dislike the situation if we don't improve on the turn. If the flop checks through, that's cool with us.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,735
go home and dont play tilted pre
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,487
I don't hate it because I think V stabs at this flop with a lot of his random air hands but when we shove we get all the hands we beat to fold, expect maybe a random Axd
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,491
I love it. For all the reasons carnivore stated and more. We turn our hand into a semibluff, and when you stove your range vs their calling ranges you see that you are actually in pretty good shape.
By xshoving, we play our hand as a draw, but with added equity in sdv because we actually beat a decent portion of villian's potential calling range. Ie (A high fds)
Xshoving also allows villians to throw more $$$ in the pot, which makes our line more profitable, and perhaps villians will check back, which allows us to fire turns with more confidence. Sprs are also perfect for x/shove
Just play around with stove against a range of all sets, two pairs, straights and made flushes, and you will see your about 50% against 1 villian otf, or 33% against two villians otf. Your equity drops dramatically by the turn.
And thats not even considering bare nutflush draws, which we should have an even bigger equity edge over
If we were deeper i think check/call would be better. But with spr 3:1 or less especially multiway, x/shove is best.
Last edited by HappyLuckBox; 05-11-2014 at 09:05 PM.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,714
crai > c/c flop
the deeper the other 2 are against each other the better it becomes.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,041
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,714
yea i mean the deeper they are the better CRAI becomes...c/c sucks given position and our c/c range in this spot which is basically non existent. if it was a hu pot c/c would clearly be the best play imo.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,210
I hate c/c on the flop...only cards that you'll feel comfortable continuing with is if a Ad or Td comes on turn. Think this is a good spot for a c/r....you're only a big dog to the nut flush or AdKx. If we lead flop and get raised then we're now in a pretty bad spot and really won't have much fold equity if we shove over.
c/r > c/c flop
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,937
Why did you sit into 5/10 when you're on tilt from a 5/5 badbeat?
Would like to hear c/r vs cbetting though.. and don't c/c.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,937
Why did you sit into 5/10 when you're on tilt from a 5/5 badbeat?
Would like to hear c/r vs cbetting though.. and don't c/c.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,775
Reading hero reads in this forum is hilarious. The odds he remembers 2 bluffs for only a single buy-in that you made a month ago are close to 0. As played the check wasn't a mistake at all and I think betting would be a pretty big mistake.
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 15,531
Interesting hand. Given the dynamics I like crai. Kind of a merge/like spot since some better hands fold, and some worse call. Especially if the other two are much deeper vs each other it creates an awkward spot for them.
