Here's a background hand against same villain:

Full Tilt Poker $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $88.70
UTG+1: $74.00
MP: $141.90
CO: $451.90
Hero (BTN): $477.20
SB: $1095.50
BB: $418.00

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with J J
UTG calls $4, 3 folds, Hero raises to $16, SB calls $14, 2 folds

Flop: ($40.00) K 8 4 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($40.00) 2 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($40.00) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $24, SB raises to $72, Hero calls $48

Final Pot: $184.00
Hero mucks Jh Jc
SB shows Ks Kh (three of a kind, Kings)
SB wins $181.00

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Villain is 17/14/3, is 8-tabling, and based on the above hand where he owned my soul, seems tricky and competent.

So top set is obviously not too hard to play. But my question here is how do we get the most value. Is his min-raise on the turn going to be air often? Do we CiB and hope he has a smaller set? Can a case be made for checking the turn to induce a bluff?

Full Tilt Poker $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $131.55
BB: $62.00
UTG: $428.90
Hero (UTG+1): $727.10
MP1: $1356.50
MP2: $312.60
CO: $74.30
BTN: $224.30

Pre Flop: Hero is UTG+1 with J J
1 fold, Hero raises to $12, MP1 calls $12, 5 folds

Flop: ($30.00) 5 8 J (2 players)
Hero bets $20, MP1 calls $20

Turn: ($70.00) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $44, MP1 raises to $88, [color=red]Hero ...

219$

$320.

$1 bob

Fold obv. :/

Or make it $194, and let him shove his lower set, 2pair, or combo draw over you.

bet 25 on flop instead of 20. i like a raise of 300 on turn. checking turn is horrible.

Raise: to like $180.

I don't see how he owned your soul in the first hand?

lele and arr en

+1


He played that badly.

Oh I thought he played it pretty well. he read my hand well enough to know that i would v-bet the river and his line would make no sense so I would probably call a raise.

Villain is 17/14/3, is 8-tabling, and based on the above hand where he owned my soul, seems tricky and competent.

Not really. Judging from the first hand you posted, looks like villain has no idea how to pay a set. He's an idiot...possibly a bit tricky in a stupid way. However his stats do indicate that he's at least a little competent.
Point is, first hand doesn't give us ANY information that would help with the decision of the next hand imo

Are you serious? That's lousy extraction, plus gives you a freepass into a flushdraw on 2 streets,.


Okay I can maybe see checking the flop for deception, but the turn play sucked.

zedveron checks this flop with an FD like .01% of the time. Postflop, he extracted pretty much max value. Preflop sucks though as he should be three-betting that spot with a wide range. Maybe he could've made a little more by betting turn and river, but not very much.

if opponent is an 8 tabling reg than i kinda like calling and taking the risk of a bad river and just calling down, if hes good its hard to see him value raising worse that will call and its practically impossible for you to have any bluffs in your range when you 3 ball the turn

the more i think about it i realize this is the best option

unless he has a set you probably may drive him off his hand and get no more money from hands that are close to dead. so you may want to play it less for a giant pot. and for the next reason.
but being fairly deep do you want to go broke to a double gutter you didnt think about.

220/obv call a shove

I flat and check- call like any river and ck-raise real good ones.
I am too deep to go broke to the double-gutter, as was stated, and owning his ridic bluff attempt by check-calling or check-raising the river with a super-strong hand will make him much less likely to play back at us later when he has position.

kinda feels like he has two pair or a worse set, i'd pop it up and snap call a shove, your not dead if he has made a weird straight and the straight is so much less likely than worse set or two pair. just click it back to him, you got top set and unless he is an absolute nit could easily have so many worse hands to stack off to you with