400NL: 12 Outer on Flop - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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400NL: 12 Outer on Flop

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10-15-2008 , 11:06 PM

WireySpinde11

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 606

Anyone play this any differently? UTG is 36/11/1 over 55 hands, UTG+2 is 21/7/1 over 90, had not 3 bet before.

No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (10 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($810.30)
BB ($400)
UTG ($280.70)
Hero (UTG+1) ($566.30)
UTG+2 ($516.10)
MP1 ($554.60)
MP2 ($303.30)
MP3 ($522)
CO ($400)
Button ($400)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 10

, 9

UTG calls $4, Hero calls $4, UTG+2 raises $23, 7 folds, UTG calls $19, Hero calls $19

Flop: ($75) 8

, A

, Q

(3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 bets $46, UTG calls $46, Hero raises $543.30 (All-In)

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10-16-2008 , 12:51 AM

Moneyball16

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,523

With these stack sizes Id probably b/3-bet. C/ring puts you in a weird spot because you are either making this huge overpush like you are doing or are just raising to 180 or whatever and having 360 left often oop on the turn leaving you in an awkward position if you miss.

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10-16-2008 , 01:28 AM

WireySpinde11

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 606

Yeah, we were like 125BB deep, so the sizes were akward. I figured if I check and original raiser bets, sometimes UTG will call, putting extra dead money in. Also, UTG+2 might have missed the flop and bet out here, so I get some extra money in there with a c/r push than with a bet/cbet that just folds out JJ. Basically, the c/r gets some extra money in from weaker ranges than the cbet/3bet does.

P.S: moneyball was an awesome book.

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10-16-2008 , 07:38 AM

lionking130

adept

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 823

what site is this lol ?
imo limping there iwth 9t is suicide if u have regs after u.
shoving is okay but i'd prolly make it like 200 something cos i want to play sets same way. tho on that board is obvious ur on big draw then set..
but anyway i think i dont call there like never when pot stands at 50bb alrady

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10-16-2008 , 11:42 AM

two2brains

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,636

whats wrong with just a call on the flop? You will hit only 24% on the turn... why not just call and see the turn? Im sure there is no way possible you are in the lead in this flop. Kinda spewy shove IMO.

Hold'em Simulation
2,970 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 8dadqh
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
td9d 33.84% 1,005 0
aa 66.16% 1,965 0

Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
td9d 32.02% 951 0
qq 67.98% 2,019 0

Hold'em Simulation
11,880 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 8dadqh
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
td9d 45.93% 5,456 0
ak 54.07% 6,424 0

Hold'em Simulation
8,910 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 8dadqh
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
td9d 39.60% 3,528 0
aq 60.40% 5,382 0

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10-16-2008 , 01:26 PM

WireySpinde11

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 606

Quote:

Originally Posted by two2brains

I hate a c/c- then you're out of position with a good draw- if you hit a diamond its obvious, and if you don't, you face a big bet on the turn. Keep in mind against calling hands I have like 40% equity. A push is +EV with all the money that's in the pot already. Then consider my fold equity- how often is the UTG+1 going to take a stab here with JJ-TT, etc, and the UTG (loose player) will call with like AJ or something, and both fold to a shove? I say this is what happens maybe 1/3rd to 1/2 the time.

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10-16-2008 , 01:41 PM

two2brains

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,636

I think UTG+2 wins this hand 53%+

It could go either way I guess but just my opinion i think someone could find alot better spots to shove on than this one. The UTG+2 would worry me though.

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10-17-2008 , 06:53 AM

lionking130

adept

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 823

if u look for better spots than this in nl400 then u'll be down to nl100 pretty soon

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10-17-2008 , 10:25 AM

two2brains

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,636

If you say so... We are obviously not playing the same site!

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10-17-2008 , 10:47 PM

#10

2OutsNoProb

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 15,991

I like shoving here a lot.

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10-18-2008 , 02:23 PM

#11

DoubleFly

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,983

I think you're a little too deep to shove against villains you've only played with a few orbits. You're getting almost the right odds to just call. Also, utg+2 is repping a strong A, and you probably don't have enough info to know if he's the type of player to let this go.

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10-20-2008 , 11:36 AM

#12

Renton

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,822

just call, your fold equity is nonexistant

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10-20-2008 , 01:12 PM

#13

cftw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,284

Quote:

Originally Posted by two2brains

I think UTG+2 wins this hand 53%+

It could go either way I guess but just my opinion i think someone could find alot better spots to shove on than this one. The UTG+2 would worry me though.

Shoving is clearly better than flatting and binking 3/4 of the time and then not extracting much value the other 25% we hit. As such, we get it in on the flop when we still have equity.

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10-20-2008 , 11:16 PM

#14

WireySpinde11

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 606

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

just call, your fold equity is nonexistant

You don't think so? Late position player takes a stab. loose player calls- it's been my experience that both fold a fair amount here. I don't see why the guy who squeezed pre, and then bet after 2 checks, necessarily has a hand he's going to the felt with 100%.

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10-20-2008 , 11:26 PM

#15

lionking130

adept

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 823

the situation is great for fold equity problem is the board ur only repping 88/drawz i think. anyway i'm quite sure thers still plenty of fe here cos ppl iso so light they wont have hand everytime thay fire at that board.

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10-21-2008 , 01:13 AM

#16

WireySpinde11

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 606

That's what I'm saying- even if I'm repping 88 or a draw (maybe the odd A8s), 22-77, 99-JJ is still folding. And KK too...

I'm also repping QdJd, and QdTd, i think.

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10-21-2008 , 01:56 AM

#17

piscogay

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 251

raise 150-200 , all in is obv u go to flush..

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10-21-2008 , 03:26 AM

#18

AllTheCheese

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 11,898

Quote:

Originally Posted by piscogay

all in is obv u go to flush..

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10-21-2008 , 06:33 AM

#19

Renton

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,822

Quote:

Originally Posted by WireySpinde11

my bad, i thought it was a reraised pot

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