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4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what? 4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what?

11-05-2023 , 09:51 PM
Game is $2-$100 spread-limit. Blinds &1-$2. I start hand with a stack of $220 and Villain covers.

HAND: I raise Kd9d in UTG+2 to $7. One guy calls. CO min-raises to $14. Folds to me, I 4-bet to $42. Only the CO calls, and we are heads-up to:

Flop: 9h4c2d (pot: $85, heads-up).

Do we check or be there? (And if we bet, what size?)
4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what? Quote
11-05-2023 , 11:19 PM
bet. bet range tbh for like 33-50%. is weird spot bc we are probably way too wide here pre but his sizing is dumb and probably not a good hand so i think 4b is maybe ok. my big concern is even if hes not nutted im not sure how likely a fold is which is meh given stacks and our hand. ap though this is about as good as its going to get board wise
4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what? Quote
11-06-2023 , 01:33 AM
Anywhere between 25% pot and half pot seems fine. Pre just call his 3bet. Small 3bets typically can be profitably called more often. I would not 4bet this hand unless you are pretty sure you are going to get folds. Vs this BS raise size, I like to go 4x with my 4bets, but I am not so sure we should 4bet. Hands like AQo should be folding to a 4bet, but if a drooler won't fold AQo, maybe we shouldn't 4bet the drooler.
4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what? Quote
11-09-2023 , 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davomalvolio
Game is $2-$100 spread-limit. Blinds &1-$2. I start hand with a stack of $220 and Villain covers.

HAND: I raise Kd9d in UTG+2 to $7. One guy calls. CO min-raises to $14. Folds to me, I 4-bet to $42. Only the CO calls, and we are heads-up to:

Flop: 9h4c2d (pot: $85, heads-up).

Do we check or be there? (And if we bet, what size?)
RESULT: I butchered this one.

I c-bet way too big, to $60, and he called.

Turn: 9h4c2d 5d (pot: $205, heads-up).

I turn a Flush Draw on top. I decide I can never fold here—I only have $120 left—but at least want to go broke in the best way possible. I know a bet will only get called by hands that are beating me, but I figure there’s a chance he has nothing and will bluff if I check, so I check. He bets $100, I go all-in for $120, he calls, but has (the expected!) QQ. I don’t hit the River and it’s time to rebuy.
4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what? Quote
11-09-2023 , 07:37 PM
Include villain descriptions in future threads
4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what? Quote
11-09-2023 , 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by larry the legend
Include villain descriptions in future threads
Sorry. He was an Aries with the sloping brow and cranial bumpage of the career criminal.
4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what? Quote
11-09-2023 , 09:58 PM
Fold pre first time. If you open, open larger - 10-12

Usually this would be an insta fold to a 3b, but it is LOL small. I'm not loving any of our 3 options to the 3b, but I think I call OOP (unless I have some strong prior on what this 3b means from this person).

Flop, not much point pretending we have a monster by 4 betting, and then not continuing the story, so I bet probably 1/2 pot. After he calls, overpair seems most likely. With the flush draw, we have a lot of outs to add to making 2p or trips, so I think I just bet max here, and perhaps I can get him to fold QQ/JJ/TT, and if not I have a lot of equity
4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what? Quote
11-09-2023 , 10:02 PM
I'm c-betting this thick. Committing myself. I don't like pre-flop this shallow. With 180 back I bet 80$ here. Calling an AI.
4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what? Quote
11-09-2023 , 11:35 PM
Unpopular opinion - If you're starting the hand with $220 and you 4B pre to $42 and get this disconnected flop, I'd just jam, rather than c-betting an amount that's going to pot commit you no matter what the turn or river is.

You 4B pre, and your opponent just called. You're repping AA/KK/AKs. He's repping less. This flop shouldn't hit his 3B-call range.

How can you bet any real size on this flop and not pot commit yourself? Even if you're beat by an over-pair, as long as it isn't KK, you've got outs to trips, 2P, and a backdoor flush.

Is he calling with QQ? I dunno. Maybe. But if you bet less than pot and he calls flop, he ain't folding turn, no matter what it is. Might as well bomb flop and see if he wants to take his ladies to war.

Sometimes when you FA you also have to FO.
4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what? Quote
11-09-2023 , 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by docvail
Unpopular opinion - If you're starting the hand with $220 and you 4B pre to $42 and get this disconnected flop, I'd just jam, rather than c-betting an amount that's going to pot commit you no matter what the turn or river is.

You 4B pre, and your opponent just called. You're repping AA/KK/AKs. He's repping less. This flop shouldn't hit his 3B-call range.

How can you bet any real size on this flop and not pot commit yourself? Even if you're beat by an over-pair, as long as it isn't KK, you've got outs to trips, 2P, and a backdoor flush.

Is he calling with QQ? I dunno. Maybe. But if you bet less than pot and he calls flop, he ain't folding turn, no matter what it is. Might as well bomb flop and see if he wants to take his ladies to war.

Sometimes when you FA you also have to FO.
We are playing $2-$100 spread-limit poker.
4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what? Quote
11-10-2023 , 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davomalvolio
We are playing $2-$100 spread-limit poker.
Alright, I admit, I don't know what the max bets size are in that game, because I only play NLHE. Whatever they are, if they're large enough to generate sufficient fold equity, then I'd max-bet that flop. If the limit is too low, then I just check flop, and maybe go for the check-raise, if my opponent bets small rather than checking back or betting big.

The thing about jamming turn on a 2nd diamond is that it makes it look like you might have picked up a diamond draw with an unpaired hand like AdKd, making it more likely you'll be called by more 1P hands, whereas if you were able to jam flop (or at least bet huge), it looks like you have a premium pair, which aligns with your pre-flop 4B.

Once you bet big on flop and he calls, you can rule out most unpaired hands, and a lot of worse 1P hands. His continue range is pretty strong, and isn't likely to fold on that second low diamond. This looks like TT+ to me.

If you can't generate max fold equity because of the betting limits, then I wouldn't be 4B'ing light pre, and in this hand, if a check-raise on flop isn't an option or if it doesn't work, I'd just be playing pot-control by check-calling or check-folding if he goes huge on turn.
4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what? Quote
11-10-2023 , 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by docvail
Alright, I admit, I don't know what the max bets size are in that game, because I only play NLHE. Whatever they are, if they're large enough to generate sufficient fold equity, then I'd max-bet that flop. If the limit is too low, then I just check flop, and maybe go for the check-raise, if my opponent bets small rather than checking back or betting big.

The thing about jamming turn on a 2nd diamond is that it makes it look like you might have picked up a diamond draw with an unpaired hand like AdKd, making it more likely you'll be called by more 1P hands, whereas if you were able to jam flop (or at least bet huge), it looks like you have a premium pair, which aligns with your pre-flop 4B.

Once you bet big on flop and he calls, you can rule out most unpaired hands, and a lot of worse 1P hands. His continue range is pretty strong, and isn't likely to fold on that second low diamond. This looks like TT+ to me.

If you can't generate max fold equity because of the betting limits, then I wouldn't be 4B'ing light pre, and in this hand, if a check-raise on flop isn't an option or if it doesn't work, I'd just be playing pot-control by check-calling or check-folding if he goes huge on turn.
The max bet size in 2-100 is 100. The min bet size is 2.
4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what? Quote
11-15-2023 , 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by larry the legend
The max bet size in 2-100 is 100. The min bet size is 2.
Never having played spread limit, I don't know how the strategy should differ or what would be the optimal solution.

But if I'm guessing...if hero starts the hand with $220, and 4B's pre to $42 over CO's min-raise, that's a pretty strong line. I could see over-betting pot by making it $100 on the flop. V should be folding all his un-paired Ax type hands, and some of his weaker pocket pairs. It's unlikely V was min-clicking with a big pocket pair, like QQ+, maybe not even JJ or TT.

Even if V calls with a bigger pocket pair, hero has top pair, 2nd kicker, and a backdoor draw to the 2nd nut flush. He could also drill 2P or trips with a K or a 9.

Bet $100 on flop, and then just get the rest in on the turn.
4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what? Quote
11-15-2023 , 09:05 PM
Don't 4! light at low stakes without a really good reason. Some ******ed mini3-bet is likely to be something like QQ. Description of how villain plays is relevant.
4-bet bluff with K9, flop 9-high, now what? Quote

      
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