3bet JJ from BTN. 1/1 game.
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 190
Playing a 1/1 game, 100 buy in. Players at the table don't get out of line too often, some weird bluffs here and there, people overvalue suited cards (play K6s often).
UTG opens for 5, he has about 150~ behind. folds to me on the BTN and I have JJ, i 3bet to 15 (have 270~ behind).
The bb 4bets to 45(has about 160~ behind), UTG folds and I call in position.
I was thinking I could see a flop then decide if I wanna shove this, since he's repping AK or a higher pocket pair.
Flop comes KT6 rainbow, he bets 40 and I call. don't think I can fold just yet for such a small cbet. I was thinking if he continues on the turn I have to fold this.
Turn is a low offsuit card, and he shoves about 120. My thought process here is I lose to AA,AK,KK,QQ. The bluffs we beat are AQ,AJ (but I block, not likely his holding).
Seems like a fold, yes?
Last edited by Garick; 03-29-2019 at 08:51 AM.
Reason: removed results
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 5,628
Takeaway should be post flop decision to call flop fold turn for not that much. If you call flop, you’re doing so because you are banking on him having the bottom of his range (that you listed) and so you call flop and turn and then hope to hold. Now, that’s a pretty poor exercise in logic however, bc if he 3b cbet range on KTx IS what you listed, then you’re drawing super thin the majority of the time. That’s poor poker. A simpler was of looking at it is to remind yourself that hands don’t come in and out of a range like inter dimensional travel. If you call flop, it’s because he’s wide enough for you to call, and then on the turn, nothing has changed, so when he bets again and is all in, you are in the spot you were a steeet ago except likely with more equity now.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 26,555
Reads? I generally fold JJ pre to a cold 4-bet in LLSNL.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 12,824
Agree with Garick. Just fold pre to the 4bet. As played, the K is a terrible card. Now we are not only behind AA, KK, and QQ, but AK, too. Just fold flop. Definitely fold turn.
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,579
From the way you describe your games you’re almost definitely behind pre in this hand. If V had more of a stack and you had the implied odds to setmine it wouldn’t be bad to peel a flop. As is though, you’re almost definitely -EV calling the 4 bet pre, but I understand why you’d do it. You’re probably better off going the super nit route and folding pre unless V has another $150 or so. Do you see 4 bets with AK in your game regularly? I suspect not. As played, easy fold on the flop. You are hardly beating anything at that point.
I see people quote different implied odds for set mining, personally I usually shoot for 12:1 or better. I don’t mind the odd loose set mine call if it’s 10:1 reasonably deep and I’m almost 100% sure V has QQ+ and will stack off nearly every time I hit a set, but 12:1 or better is smarter.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 12,824
BTW, if you called turn and won the hand w/o spiking a J, you are not describing your games correctly -- or we need the same read on V that you have, because a very good read is the only possible reason for calling turn (and flop, really).
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 884
Fold pre, fold flop, not getting the odds to set mine.
Idk about your games, but in mine, cold 4! is just about QQ+, so you're crushed.
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 190
Sorry for not including the reads. This player was pretty aggressive throughout the game.
Not that he has a wide range, but he keeps firing even when missing.
People are pretty aggressive in this game with AK/AQ so I can't rule those hands out on a 4bet from this particular person.
So the fact that he didn't slow down one bit (shoved instantly on turn) hinted me that it might be one of those spots. I really felt I was good here but I just couldn't call.
Later he told me he had AQ, don't think he was lying.
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,579
Here’s the thing:
Even if he isn’t lying and actually had AQ, you should still feel fine about folding.
That’s the absolute bottom of his range there and almost the only hand combo you beat. You are losing big calling down there longterm for sure. It’s a fine fold.
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,579
Honestly, you want V’s trying to do stuff like that against you.
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,722
Was this at Hollywood Park?
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 190
Just a local home game. The home games around here are pretty soft, but I really need to be nitty. I find myself card dead pretty often waiting for playable hands, cause my raises get 2-3 callers every time.
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 5,235