Hero (3800): LAG image and a lot of history with villain. In this session im being staked by the owner of the private game and villain is aware of it, so he must know im playing extremely careful. He may try to exploit me in some spots
Villain (5500): Good balanced aggressive player. Biggest winning player in the room. We have more than 2 years of history together. He is not afraid to make a big bluff/big call in the right spots. We talk a lot of strategy together so we know very well each other game. He likes to exploit players

OTH
Blinds 5-10. 4 handed and villain button straddles to 25
Folds to hero who is in CO and raises to 100 with KsQs, villain 3bets to 350 on the button. Hero calls

Before the hand we had been discussing a lot with villain of calling ranges on 3bets pots OOP and villain knows I fold almost all my range when OOP. I decide I want to call and play post flop instead of trying to push him off 4betting knowing he is more than capable to 5bet me light pre flop if he detects a flick of weakness. Also his 3betting range is pretty wide, he likes to play in position. He is not necessarily premium

Flop (715): QcTc9s
Hero checks, villain bets 400. Hero calls

Turn (1515): 7s
Hero checks, villlain bet 800. Hero has 3050 behind

Ok we got a monster draw OOP facing a very strong range from a good player. Villain can be betting this hand with QJ, TJ, J9, KJ, J8, QQ, TT, 99, QT, 9T. I think AA, KK is checking back. AJ, AK is checking back too. If I call this turn and the flush/straight doesnt come, villain is very probably going to fire the river and I will end up with a bluff catcher which I will have to fold.

Since he is aware that im being staked in this session, he must know that im playing a pretty tight range and I will not put almost 4k without the nuts. Im inclining to shove this turn and hope I dont get instant called. Im blocking the nut straight (although it would be much better to have QJ here) and I have a lot of outs in case he decides to call me with 2 pair. A set might find a call, AA/KK will instant fold this raise.

Thoughts?

You have a bluff catcher with a ton of equity and he's most likely not betting better hands that will fold to a jam so calling is the way to go. There's a lot of ways to play the river - besides improving your hand a club could come opening up a bluffing opportunity, 1 card straights,etc. I don't think villain is light here on a board like this.

You are not repping much if raise turn. Call and evaluate river.

Pre: 4 handed totally ok.

Flop: Easy call.

Turn: This is an interesting spot because you are only 4 handed and V is more than capable of 3-betting light. Does this game let you run it more than once? Does this player ever run it more than once? If yes to both, it might be tempting to rip it in and try to get 2 runouts. I don't expect V to fold unless he has complete air like A5 or an underpair. We're only in bad shape against sets. I kind of like ripping it in because we look so strong. Honestly, both ranges are pretty uncapped. V has more QQ, but we block that. AA/KK are meh on this board so w/e. If I were V I wouldn't be happy to call it off with AA/KK. Not sure I'd be even trying to get 3 streets with AA/KK. Plus we block KK too.

Yes we always run it 2/3 times against this player since we are friends outside the table. Also another reason for me to rip it in in this turn

Can you elaborate on that? When I was involved in a staking business we always tried to make sure that people didn't play way looser than usual because it's not their own money.
(For the same reason we constantly check the books of businesses we invest in)

pre and flop look standard. Turn we can obviously call, the question is just if shoving is better. If we call, what's the plan on which rivers?

We're 4-way with 150 straddles. TPGK alone is a pretty decent hand in that spot.

Simply I was staked with 5k for this game and obviously I was playing tighter than usual since its not my money. Villain was aware that I was staked and maybe that I was playing much tighter than usual

Going to the hand, if I just call the turn I know that villain will blast the river with a very wide range so it will be very hard to find a call with just top pair. But his range looks really strong betting twice on flop and turn, not sure if I have enough hands in my range that can push him off his hand

Why would running it multiple times be helpful? Doesn't change anything. Also saw your comment about being staked - if you're going to play worse being staked then don't get staked.

Is the villain a maniac? Saying he's going to blast the river with a very wide range makes him sound reckless - this is a board where he should have a fairly narrow range, especially as I don't think AA/KK/AQ is taking this line and betting river. Also keep in mind there are a lot of rivers that change the board dramatically that should benefit your range so he can't just bet/bet/bet with reckless abandon.

Maybe he thinks you play tighter if staked because you guys know each other. Otherwise the standard assumption is the exact opposite. Most people are way more careful with their own money.

Don't we have a pretty easy call if he will blast the river with a wide range? We're assuming he's 3betting us very wide and you think he will try to barrel you off your hand because you're scared money. If that's the case, shouldn't you catch his bluffs instead of letting him know you have a good hand?

If we gii now and get called, we're at worst 20% dog and at best 75% favorite. We have a decent chance to get some money back running it twice. Might lose both. Might win both. But if we just call turn, we don't get those possibilities. What happens if we brick out and V continues firing? He has to continue with his value and his bluffs in which case we can't really call. We'd have to hit exactly a spade to feel good calling off against a capable player who may bluff scary boards if we check / call the whole way.

He is not bluffing river 100% of the times. But he is capable of doing with Jx in his hand. I think he is also getting value from some 2 pairs (QT, Q9, T9 not sure) and all the sets. AA, KK, AQ is checking back ( but I dont see him in his range for the big bet on the turn, he will likely check back those hands). Is he bluffing flush draws that brick? Not sure but its likely

Not sure, maybe is scared money? But I dont feel like calling a shove on the river with top pair against this opponent knowing he will probably do it a large percentage of the time in this situation. He is not a maniac, he is a very good LAG player but he can balance his range really good in this spot knowing I will very probably overfold the river

Turn is a call. I don't think he folds better. He calls with more better than worse. You might get hands with equity to fold, but I don't think that is worth it. You have enough behind that you aren't pot commited if you call.

If you are worried you can't call river, then I think you should be considering two things. One, does he have too many bluffs on river? If yes, then you should be calling the river a lot. If no, then you have a more complicated decision. If he is underbluffing river and has no river give ups, then you have a fold on the turn. If he has a reasonable amount of turn bluffs that are river give ups, then you should call turn and evaluate river.

EDIT: and actually even if he has the right amount of river bluffs but no river give ups, you may want to consider folding turn as well. If you have a pure bluff catcher, then he needs river give ups if he has the right amount of river bluffs. It is a little different with your hand though because you can't be drawing dead.

I really don't like flatting the turn, especially vs. this player. We are in a ton of trouble on the river if we miss, and I don't think we get paid if we hit. It's fold or shove. Being OOP sucks.

Edit: The only time I flat here is if I plan to call blank rivers, which I'm not sure is a good idea here.

This is how the hand ended:

Isn’t running it more than once terrible for you if your staked

PF: Prefer a 4 bet here, this is a co vs button configuration and you know the button will 3 bet you light. You have a premium hand that blocks KK/QQ and AK. You're also super deep so playing the rest of hand OOP sucks. I know you say he's capable of finding a light 5 bet but if he's a good as you say, he should still be folding a majority of 3bets to your 4 bet. Also you say that you 2 talk strategy pretty regularly so he should know that you're a studied player and unlikely to get too out of line against him giving your 4 bet more credence. I would make it $1300 pre and expect to take it down a good majority of the time

Turn: Ripping it in is not good given the description. You said villain is a thinking player so he's not likely to be barreling here with air. This is likely a spot he checks back Jx w/a straight draw so villain is heavily skewed toward value. This flop is so wet that you would be c/r'ing your sets, 2 pairs and straights most of the time so what are you going to be calling the flop to c/r the turn with? Also, once you c/r the turn, what hands can you really fold out? If he's got a set/2pair/straight he's going to snap call, maybe you fold out AA or KK but that's a small part of his range compared to all the 2pair+ combos and your fold equity is further decreased by the fact that he might be more inclined to check those hands rather the bet fold them. When he bets there, I think he has every intention of calling a raise. Worrying about a tough river decision is not a good reason to blast off on this turn. Prefer c/c and eval the river

Pre: I agree 4-bet pre is a viable play, but you're sizing is waaaaaaay too big. $1300 is 1/3 our stack. 4-bets only need to be around 2.5-2.75X the 3-bet. 4-betting with KQs is 100% bluffing and we cannot call off if jammed on.

Turn: I advocate raising turn only if we know we can run it more than once. If this is a 1 time only room or player, then for sure call and evaluate, just based on equity. Never folding for this price.

Should 4bet more than call preflop. Calling is still fine.

Flop, we can c/c or c/r

Turn is almost a pure call. Can raise with hands like Ac8c, Kc8c, Ks8s, JsTs.....etc.


KsQs better as bluff catcher. And the hands that have added equity of combo draw make better bluffs.

We are calling most river jams though after calling here, unless we have enough history to know V is under bluffing. Fold on most club river jams though.




Besides that, try not to play differently when being staked. Normally if you're being staked, they are investing in you as you normally play. Playing tighter or looser defeats the purpose of the investment.


I'd also never make jamming decisions based on knowing we can run it multiple times. I would however take that into consideration when deciding to call certain bets, *if* I think that's going into our V's decision making process.

So people are calling turn and calling a basically blank river (non-club, etc.)?

I am when we are only playing 150bb deep. There was a $25 straddle.


Obviously if we have good info on V, we can fold river if our info says he's under bluffing.

With the pf straddle aren't you more like 150bbs deep to start the hand? Regardless of all the background details which clearly increase your hand strength vs this particular player - I would find it difficult to do anything other than call the turn.

Considering how you played the hand. I would say some small frequency you can fold river if you get jammed on but mostly just x/c again.

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If our read is that Villain thinks we're going to be playing too tight and conservative, I think check calling a blank seems pretty reasonable. Scared money will usually C/R turn on with a big hand on a board this wet, so I think it's pretty clear to villain that hero doesn't have a monster and can bluff accordingly.

Typically I agree with you on the 4 bet sizing but we are not 100bbs deep, we are 380, counting the straddle it's probably closer to 190bbs but still relatively deep. Our villain is also described as being capable of 5 betting light and I also presume capable of calling 4 bets in position and leveraging that advantage throughout the hand. Playing deep favors the in position opponent and the higher the SPR the greater that advantage. If we 4 bet 2.5x that's only 875 and he only needs to call 525 and since he's got another 3k behind, he's pretty incentivized to call which is a really bad spot for us to be in. I would size up here for all those reasons and I like going at least $1100. This should get him to fold most of his trash and stop him from 5 betting us light which a smaller 4 bet might not accomplish. Also by lowering the SPR, we make it easier to play our hand post flop and minimize the positional advantage of our opponent.

This is not a reason to jam vs calling. If villain is always going to call the jam w/value and fold his bluffs but sometimes might bluff the river, the +EV play is just to call both turn and river. You lose the same amount when behind but pick up some EV when he bluffs. There's not difference when he has a straight and snap calls our turn jam vs the times we cc the turn and river. Sure we might feel better about it when we ship the turn but the end result is the same