Have a quick HH and a general question. How light are you defending to 3! OOP at your local game? I'm defending pretty wide IP especially against looser players but I've noticed a few things at my table that probably require adjusting to:

1. Hardly anyone 3-bets pre.
2. People call wide pre A LOT, calling ranges are SCs/S1Gs/all PPs (sometimes even AA)/oSCs/some S2Gs and S3Gs like Q8s, T7s.
3. People are calling 3-bets pre A LOT and defending their open, even OOP.
4. People are never 4-betting less than QQ+ AKo+ and usually only KK+ AKs.

Quick HH:

1/3 NL
Hero just sat down and knows V as a standard reg, TAGish but not overly competent, can bluff, knows odds, etc. Hero opens K Q from UTG for 15, unknown player calls from CO (later to determine this player is a station), V 3! to 60 OTB, Effective stacks are ~350. Hero?

I made what I think is a nitty fold but wondering what your live 3! adjustments are.

I have an extremely nitty image to begin with, plus my method employs a style that has a ~0% raising range in HJ-, plus I'm often on a relatively short stack, so admittedly the thought of "how lightly to defend a 3bet" isn't one I seriously think about. So I'm literally only continuing with the extreme top of my range. But obviously your situation could differ.

So I would fold KQs here without too much of a second thought (especially since it is literally the very bottom of my nitty playing range in EP). But that's me and my situation. But your table would have to play significantly different than mine in order to think we should be defending 3bets remotely lightly in general.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Got to call 45 to win 135 (when I complete) and KQ suited is a hand that flops well. I want to see flops with KQ suited. I'm calling all day sometimes mixing in a 4 bet if I have an in game read opponent is 3 betting wide. I forgot to mention plus implied odds for sure I am calling.

Game flow and position come into play with me. I love KQs but much more when I’m putting on the pressure.

Without good reads that 3bet size is pretty big and we don’t know anything about the player. So I make the fold and it’s not nitty at all.

I don't think folding KQ, suited or otherwise, is going to be a leak against typical low stakes opponents. You said yourself: in the games you play people hardly ever 3 bet. This necessarily implies that they are rarely, if ever, bluffing when they do and you can safely fold. Folding is one of the primary ways you can exploit people who play too tight or don't have much aggression in their game.

I'll also chime in with the obligatory "fold KQ pre when UTG in a full game".

Aren't you forgetting something there?

With the larger raises sizes and cold callers in live poker, 3bets often are close to the size of 4bets in 100BB online play. Deeper stacks often negate that, but in spots like here where we're less than 120BB deep, the flop SPR would be a little over 2 if the third players fold and a little over 1.5 if he calls. With smaller SPRs, playability gets less important and hot & cold equities get more important. Also the positional advantage/disadvantage gets less important.

Im folding that OOP to 4x sizing unless we are 250+BB deep and player sucks

yes I saw the 350 as 850 (in a zoom meeting haha). Yeah stacks are too shallow so you'd just be bleeding chips. I personally might still call just because I am pretty sticky and fairly experienced. But it is a standard fold I agree.

Unless our opponent is the worst player in the room, our IO vs RIO suck, especially OOP. For example, think how much we win against JJ on a K high flop. Now think how much we lose against AK on the same flop. Obviously images will factor into this a little bit, but we're going to need the most aggrotard image at the table to make the IO vs RIO close, imo.

GcluelessIOvsRIOnoobG

Even if you manage to create the image you want players in these games just will frequently refuse to adjust, anyways. If I had a dollar for every time some nit whined, "how can you call with that" after 3-barreling a station with unimproved AK I'd be a wealthy man.

/end thread

I'm trying to work through the logical adjustments here, my thinking is...

1. If no one is 3-betting then calling ranges can include some stronger hands like AQs and AK, this should mean I tighten my 3-betting range?
2. If everyone is calling wide then this should mean I widen my 3-betting range?
3. If people are calling 3-bets a lot then I should always be 3-betting for value, this should narrow my range.
4. If people are never 4-betting and if they do its an easy fold, then I should widen my 3-betting range.

So I have two votes tighten and two votes widen... right now I'm doing it with a range like TT+, ATs+, KQs and occaisionally AJo/KTo/ATo/88.

I doubt you are ever in a game where those four considerations are actually equal, and #4 doesn't necessarily imply that you should widen your 3 bet range. If they are flatting stronger hands then you are just value owning yourself over and over meanwhile you might get to safely fold to a 4 bet once every session or two.

So what would your final adjustments be then? I'm thinking 3! wider when deep and very narrow when shallow.

I don't know that I have final adjustments because I don't play preflop by rote. I could easily see myself using a hand like KQs to 3 bet if it means I can isolate a fish whereas the same hand might go instantly into the muck against a tight raiser.

Your position, not just in relation to the button but also the opener, is also crucial. If a certified maniac opens UTG I'm not going to try to isolate him from UTG + 1 and run the risk of one of the other players waking up with a real hand.

However, if the maniac and I switch places you could easily go for a limp/re-raise and might even get some tight players to fold really good hands because your line looks so strong.

Every hand is a unique problem and none of your opponents are good enough to force you to resort to GTO preflop charts or whatever. At low limits base your game on betting for solid value and make plays when opportunities arise. You don't have to worry about being all that balanced. Playing exploitive poker is going to look pretty GD random to people who don't know how to make use of the information you are giving them.

Ok well right now I basically 3! based on depth but I don't know if I'm getting out of line. I 4! K9s OOP the other day against a V that might 3! light and he snap folded. Against some NITs I wouldn't even 3! AQs. But idk if I should ever be 'mixing it up' with hands like 56s, JTo, A9s...just trying to build out my game from the robotic advice sometimes preached on llsnl.