$1/2
$165 effective stacks. Hero covers. Both Vs have about the same amount.

V1. MAWG. Hasn't played many pots. Not enough orbits to call him a nit. Maybe just card dead.
V2. MAWG. Opening way too wide. I had been planning to 3-bet him light. Bets smalls post flop and will stab at pots when it's checked around. Nothing shown down. Feels like a guy that plays a once or twice a month.

The table in general was loose, passive and there had not been a 3-bet in maybe an hour of playing.

The hand:
V2 raises from UTG to $11
Hero 3-bets to $35 with Ah Jd
V1 shockingly cold calls from the BB after much deliberation
V2 calls

Flop: $107
Jh 8s 5s
V1 checks
V2 checks
Hero?

Shove

Trivial shove as played.

What position are you in in this hand?

It’s a shove no matter what given the flop and your stack, but I’m curious. 3-betting an UTG raise with AJo is….extremely ambitious lol.

I did shove, but I started questioning it. What's the purpose? It's only getting called by better hands. Checking is obviously terrible, but I started wondering if breaking it up into smaller bets to extract value might be better....like $50 on the flop, $80 on turn.

UTG+1. lol. I read this article on AJs and figured with my tight image, why not expand it to AJo. The UTG player's range was super wide.

https://upswingpoker.com/ace-jack-suited/

Shove with TPTK and SPR just over 1. With 2 opponents it isn't the most pretty of boards but it isn't terribly ugly either. Your most likely guarding against a draw, either could have a spade draw and V2 could have various straight draws. Against a single opponent it would make sense to bet small and see if they get sticky with a bad hand but against 2 your just inviting trouble.

There are plenty of worse hands that can call you here. Either of them might “put you on Ace-King” and call with TT or QJ or something. You don’t have any spades in your hands so either of them could call with a big draw (AsKs, JsTs, etc). Or they might suck at math or want to GAMBOOOL and call you with an even worse draw.

I was going to say “shoving is the best of a bunch of bad options,” but I don’t even think that’s true. I think it’s just a good play, and the one I’d make if I somehow found myself in this position.

(I actually think if you shove and the BB folds and UTG has a hand like QcJc, they have a mandatory call, because you *should* be shoving all your draws here.)

If it is only being called with better hands than TPTK you can mint money at this game. Roughly two times per three hours rinse and repeat.

Shouldn't be shoving imo. Just bet small and keep their ranges wider. We get stacked by the hands that beat us either way. Might as well win extra money the times we win the hand.

3bet pre is spew without a really solid read and reason to be doing it.

Sb v btn then yeah 3bet AJo all day but this config is way too tight

Agree. My read was that the table was insanely passive and the pre-flop raiser was opening too wide. Plus, he was pretty easy to read postflop. I raised $10 pre-flop like 6 times in 2 orbits and just took down blinds and limps. People must have been folding EVERYTHING (pp's, sc's, broadways).

What if the flop was T72 rainbow instead and it was checked to us? Check, bet small, or shove?

ItÂ’s a shove in the first scenario because you are happy to fold out worse and take down the pot, and yes like drowski said u are getting stacked no matter what against QQ+ on blank runouts, maybe if the Ks rolls off and both players jam u can just get away. But u do want to make money against hands ur beating. Because of awkward SPR any bet u make on the flop will be committing so u donÂ’t want to give draws a good price to draw out and win ur stack regardless. You can easily get called by worse here and you want to give the worst price u can. Folding out good draws is a good result. Worth their equity x the pot if the pot was 105$ and he had 37% equity and he folded thatÂ’s worth about 40$ to you. If you think they never call with worse here do it more often, youÂ’ll be pleasantly impressed, youÂ’ll run into QQ occasionally from cold caller and sometimes sets but usually u will get folds and sometimes calls from draws TT or worse KJs, have more semi-bluff shoves if they never call with worse, but for the second scenario T72r with AJo IÂ’m going to acknowledge I stepped in it with my 3-bet and check back. Maybe bet small if VÂ’s give up easily but IÂ’m not shoving.

Also if he has say a flush draw, ~37% equity of the pot. Him folding is worth 40$ you need him calling to outweigh that if you bet. So63% of your bet - 37% of your bet should be greater than 40$ If you bet 100$ and he calls you profit only 26$ + you need to play perfect with the tiny amount you left behind to not pay off a better hand on the river and destroy that profit. If you shove for say 150$ And get called by that hand u profit 39$ and he is risking 150$ to win 255$ And needs only 37% to call, so u can get called by worse. Just shove.

ItÂ’s a shove in the first scenario because you are happy to fold out worse and take down the pot, and yes like drowski said u are getting stacked no matter what against QQ+ on blank runouts, maybe if the Ks rolls off and both players jam u can just get away. But u do want to make money against hands ur beating. Because of awkward SPR any bet u make on the flop will be committing so u donÂ’t want to give draws a good price to draw out and win ur stack regardless. You can easily get called by worse here and you want to give the worst price u can. Folding out good draws is a good result. Worth their equity x the pot if the pot was 105$ and he had 37% equity and he folded thatÂ’s worth about 40$ to you. If you think they never call with worse here do it more often, youÂ’ll be pleasantly impressed, youÂ’ll run into QQ occasionally from cold caller and sometimes sets but usually u will get folds and sometimes calls from draws TT or worse KJs, have more semi-bluff shoves if they never call with worse, but for the second scenario T72r with AJo IÂ’m going to acknowledge I stepped in it with my 3-bet and check back. Maybe bet small if VÂ’s give up easily but IÂ’m not shoving.

are you utg+1 on a full table? if so fold pre

Table isn’t loose passive if in 2 orbits you’re multiple times folding out all the limpers with $10 Your first post said loose passive.

That’s a tight passive table.

And that changes the dynamic. Two orbits is semi long time for the entire table to be so card dead that everyone is folding to $10.


If the table was actually loose passive, we want to get all the money in asap. As you’ll get called with worse a lot.

If the table is tight passive, and your read on the overplaying villain is correct, good chance he’ll fold out here and leave us with the tight passive V who just cold called your 3b after repeatedly folding to $10 preflop at a 1/2 game.


Is he hero calling you with AK?


I think this *might* be a rare time we aren’t looking to get stacks in for value at the very moment.

If you think their ranges are draw heavy, and you have fold equity, then just shove. If you’re fairly sure you fold out every hand you beat, just go 1/3 or so, and shove all good turns.


Though with the SPR, I don’t think you’re ever “wrong” to shove here.

But you may be able to add some value betting 1/3 the times you get AK or KJs to call a flop bet instead of folding out.

I’d also be slightly cautious of a tank cold call.

This could easily be QQ/JJ debating on a 4! Or a shove who decided to see a flop before being aggressive.

We block JJ to one combo. We limit AK to 12, and he has 6x QQ combos.

Also could be TT and KQ and possibly KJ.


So we need to be careful we don’t force him to play optimally on flop.

If he always folds AK, TT, KQ, KJ, to a shove and always calls with QQ, JJ, and AKss KQss, and KJss…….

But continues for smaller with the other hands, then it *’may* possibly be an outlier scenario where we don’t auto shove here and get to the turn.

If you think you get called with KJ and TT, maybe 99, some FDFD then it’s back to auto shove.

A shove here though is never “wrong” and should be the norm.

I was going to write “get in your DeLorean and go back and fold PF”. I’m all for 3-betting V2 light, but do it when we have better position. If you get any action from anyone else left to act you will be absolutely crushed.