Hero has been playing tight-aggressive rarely getting out of line.

UTG+1: Middle-aged man seen to chase draws OTT despite not getting the proper odds to call. Other than that, seems like an average player.

UTG+2: Originally bought in for $100 and won a pot after calling with K4s a raise all-in pre-flop for $80. Doesn’t seem to understand the value of his hand.

Live Full Ring Cash Game

Stacks:
Hero: $500
UTG+1: $550
UTG+2: $200

Pre-Flop: ($8) Hero is UTG with KK
Hero bets $20, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP calls, CO calls, BTN calls


Flop: Q64 ($114, 6 players)
Hero bets $80, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP folds, CO folds, BTN folds


Turn: 9 ($354, 3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $115, UTG+2 goes all-in for $100, Hero?

Raise bigger pre.

Flop 6 handed OOP, I smack myself for raising so small pre and check.

Turn is meh.

Nh, now fold. Against a flush that you're not drawing dead to already, you're something like 85:15 dog. If they both have spades, its obv way worse. There's some Q9 in there too, they love that hand, and other 2pr combos along with some spaz AsXx hands.

There has to be some QsJx in there to which we crush....I dunno, after thinking another minute I think its pretty villain dependant and close. Tough spot.

Oh, and more pre..esp with the K4s fish still having chips. Make it $30, you'll still get action cause this sounds like a sticky table and who cares about balance against clowns like these.

Tough spot but I think I go mubsy and fold.

Edit: do you have any other reads or hand history with V1? If he pokerclacked when the spade hit, I'm lol turbo folding.

I would also bet pot on the flop, since if the old man is willing to call $80 on that board, he is probably calling $115. Plus, QT+ is calling all day, especially against these villains. Turn is prob a fold from me, wait for a better spot because you could be already drawing dead, especially with the man betting into the made flush after calling the flop.

bet like 100$ on flop and calling the turn because pot odds. wtf at checking the flop.

why do you guys all wanna raise bigger pre? $20 pretty standard open.

Make 25/30 Pre. Easy fold on turn

This isn't the internet. People want to play hands live and are more willing to call big raises preflop with marginal holdings. Raise 5-7x with premium hands and you will put yourself in much better spots post flop. If your table is tight you can obviously adjust your bet sizing. If you really think your opponents are smart enough to put you on KK because your raised 6x in an average to bad 3/5 game you may be the fish in the game.

hero hasn't said how long he's been at the table if he's been there for like 6 hours and been making it $20 all night (or even 2 hours) even the drunkest of players will notice if he suddenly makes it $40. i mean, i play in 5/5 games where i 10x but it's game-dependent. i assume this is just a random 3/5 game at a casino and he's been at the table for a decent amount of time.

has utg bet small before?

djz,

You must be new to this forum and not know the rule that half of all hand discussions must be about pre flop raise sizing. Enjoy.

Its not that easy of a fold on turn getting over 5-1 to make our flush.

scroll: good point.

waterman: yep lol. what is everyone thinking? why do we assume either one is nutted? we also have implied odds vs TP hands that turned a flushdraw.

At that point in time, I was about 2 hours into my session.

Exactly. Utg +2 could have atc and theres no real reason to only give utg+1 only nut flush

UTG+1 looks like a recreational player. Caucasian male wearning a polo shirt. He didn't immediately bet when the flush hit and after I checked the turn. He tightens up when his stack gets deep. He likes to play in position.

UTG+2 looks like a noob. African-american male being involved in many pots and seems like a calling station. Fundamentally inexperienced at poker.

This is just a really bad spot... We have huge odds and no idea where we're at.

Personally, I raise 5bb UTG, maybe even 6 at a loose table, but regardless, sometimes it will go 6 handed anyway.

OTF, I think I'd consider checking with the intention of raising or folding depending on the action.

Raise more OOP, less IP - it's basic fundamental.

bc we have a massive fish at the table willing to stack off with K4 pre.

Preflop: Generally I would say raise more like others, but I think the size should be heavily dependent on table conditions: is $20 getting 1-2 calls or $30, are people squeezing any in position, have you been opening a lot, etc.

Flop: I think your lead is fine, but you could also consider a check/evaluate line too sometimes c/r’ing.

Turn: you are committed against UTG2 at his stack size and tendencies. You are not committed however against UTG1 so I would focus my line on him. I much prefer a bet/fold line over a check/call versus this described average player. I doubt he has many if any sets in his range b/c he would tend to raise flop with so many players being behind him. Q9 and flushes are in his range as are some QXs hands and maybe straight draws. I think if you lead into him for $100, you can confidently fold to a raise. If he calls, I would check/fold the river (unless 4th spade) to a reasonable bet because this type of player is almost never bluffing in this spot. If a fourth spade comes on the river, then I would bet/fold – yes bet/fold – in spite of the huge pot odds because this type only raises the river with the AsX.

In sum, I think it’s a pretty marginal spot and don’t have a strong preference over a bet/fold or check/fold on the turn. I’d probably just make a read on the spot and go with it.

Looks like a good spot to check/evaluate on the turn. If UTG1 bets big we have to make a live read and I'm probably folding but faving a small bet like this I'm calling to see what he does on the river. I'd expect villain to check back AQ/KQ/QJ on the river and sometimes you see people check back baby flushes here so I think I'd be prepared to fold to a bet on the river assuming we don't hit a K or flush. People tend to become showdown monkeys (even more than usual) when a player is all-in.

I don't mind the 4x open but at a lose table, especially with loose players on your left I'm opening 5x with a narrow range UTG from EP. Flop sizing seems fine on this flop.

In spots where its the first street that hero really made a mistake on its worth noting. When its someone pointing out to raise bigger the first time with an overpair its really tiring and should all go to a preflop sizing containment thread.

don't see how the turn is a marginal spot there are 110bb in pot and it's a potential 3 way allin on river...

what is reason for folding the turn?

Simply put?

You're facing aggression with non-nut draw...and very little read.

guy bets 1/3rd the pot and a idiot/fish goes allin and you're worried about our draw not being to the nuts?

Serious question?

Yes.

There are two things to consider here.
Vs the shorties, there is a good chance that any spade gives us the best hand. He's unlikely to have the Ace high flush, as any two spades are good enough to stick it in here, and possibly some worse cards as well (but I weight the flushes heavily) so we've likely got 6 outs vs him, and possibly more if he's tooling out with some worse hands.
The problem is that lets assume a spade hits on the river, and it's anything other than the Ace. Do we think that we are good, or are we worried about stacking off the the big stack with the second best hand when he has the As (and possibly drawing dead when he has AQ/AJ/ATss type hands. If he has a spade, big or small, and the shortie has two small spades we've got one, and 3 on the board there are only 6 more out there, which means we've only got 12% equity here. Since we only have to call another $30 we are getting correct direct odds to call if we think that our spade is good. If we don't however, we end up value owning our self by calling and stacking off when we hit our gin card that actually gives us second nuts.