I think this is backwards vs a good player

How is it backward? What's he "floating" and/or calling flop with and calling turn with that folds to a river bet?

Care to explain why? It seems like if he calls turn it tightens his range up significantly and even though some parts of it will not be able to handle a third barrel, most of it will have to call a river bet for odds even if it would rather not see one.

^ I'm also curious to hear the explanation for this.

Double barrel for sure.

I think $70 is perfect. Less looks weak, more is unnecessary for your goals.

I just think you rep a lot of Ax suited that called and made 2p on the turn, but if vil thinks maybe you aren't raising suited aces below ATs, maybe vil takes a lot of 2p possibilities out of your range and can sniff out a bluff here (even more likely if vil hit an ace, which vil has in his range if he's capable of floating). I think I like c/r the most here, vil can definitely justify calling ott and otr if vil has an ace, but a turn c/r I think weights hero's range heavily towards AJ or JJ.

The c/r certainly has merit if you believe that villain will bet. I would think this villain has a decent chance of checking this card back on the turn for pot control. He might still fold if we bet the river, but that also carries the increased potential that our b/c/b line (because of our foiled c/r attempt) smells like bluff to villain and he calls the river with Jx and weak ace hands anyway.

I wouldn't feel comfortable that the villain would put money in the pot here with a range consisting of middle pairs and Jx hands in position with limited showdown value.

Well, I guess Rumor isn't going to 'splain his comment...

In game I looked at this in exactly the same light daniel9816 and samo did above.

Hero barrels for $45, though if I had to do it over, I'd make it $60, because I agree that less than half pot looks weak to a reg. Given my image, though, I didn't think at the time that he'd think so, since I have just the right profile to be sizing my bets based on my last bet, rather than the pot size.

Villain thinks for a few seconds and calls.

Pot: 200
River: total blank. I don't think it even had a suit or any pips on it. Just a plain white card.

Hero?

Lol, would be a cool game if they shuffled literal blanks in the deck for flop turn and river cards.

I'm shutting down for reasons stated earlier. If he shows down some pair less than Jx then my adjustment for that would be to triple barrel as a bluff with a high frequency amd double barrel for value with a wider range.

45???????/ mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnn i would abort because your misclick on the turn looks fishy, because normal size, too small,extra big is suspicious, had the right idea on the turn....sucks you misclicked the sizing

and i make it 25 pre, 35 on flop, 75 on turn prolly

Haha ... well since we don't have a plain white card, I'd C/F. Yes, turn could have been a bit higher, trivial b/c he is likely calling $15 more. Besides, plan was not to barrel river with this turn sizing anyway.

Btw, nice to see your posts again Garick.

Is $45 really barreling? Seriously, I think he's calling $45 with almost anything. My plan was to bet $70 and give up if called. Not sure what to do with $45. I guess I c/f river, but because of the weak turn bet and just a call, I would love to bomb river. I doubt I would, though.

Tks. I've been around, just mostly in the chat thread, because I haven't had any hands I found that interesting in a while. Also, I mostly play in a home game where I have sooo much history with the V's that I really couldn't explain even if I were looking for advice.

I post in strat threads too, but mostly just on the weekends.

Now that you bet $45 ott, I'd put in a some what healthier bet otr. Like $115 , make it seem like you really didn't want to lose him on the turn, and now this is a huge bet by the rec player w/ his tucked in tee. I think he respects your triple barrel more than not. but expect to get called down the next time.

I always liked the muckelshoot (spelling?) when I lived out there, much better then Tullalyup or whatever imo.

Do you believe the $70 would fold a hand like KJ, as opposed to $45? I don't think it would. If he has A4s, he is calling both, while 65s is folding to $45 as well as $70. I'm not sure the extra sizing matters, unless the plan is to bomb the river after a large turn bet.

The ace to me is the ultimate death card that others give us credit for (even fish) in spots like these. I would "one and done" a large $90 on the turn and assume fish hit the ace if he calls. I do not want to 3 barrel a fish on an Axx board esp after he calls a significant bet on turn which seems 100% to hit me.


And if we think the villain will never fold Jx to any size on turn, then i think I would back off any bluffs vs him and stick mainly to super thin value pounding him on other hands.

ANL, why are we considering this guy a fish? He seemed solid to me. I was repping a somewhat fishy table image, but he was an obv reg grinder.

Yes, I think $70 will fold hands that hang around for $45 (a less than half pot bet). It looks weak, as if hero is scared of the A. If hero follows through with a good size river bet, villain might fold -- even a weak A. However, not sure if that's a good idea here. Not my plan

Yes, 45 is too small.
75-80 is fine (yippie, I hit A!!)

Yeah, well... If you hate the sizing now, wait until you find out that the guy actually knew that I'm a 2+2er.

I found out from Richard Parker later that he had mentioned to the V that he was going to meet me before I got there. Of course, RP hadn't outed himself yet, so I didn't realize that anyone at the table had a totally different image of me than I was projecting. That sizing looks really weak coming from a known "student of the game," imo.

Had we known that we were made, what do you think we should do on turn? Obv if we barrel, we barrel much larger, but if we consider it a reg-on-reg war, it might be better to just c/f OOP, or c/r if something seems twiggy.

C/r works great if you have a read that he likes to float wide and stab the turn with bluffs and marginal hands betting to protect and get us to fold out our equity.

Grunch.
The A is unlikely to have hit him as he'd more than likely squeezed you in this spot with an A given the fish's open limp and your iso raise - if your read is good. I'd bet 75ish since the A would be a big part of your iso range in the HJ with the intention of folding to a raise.

I do know what he had and what his thought process was. Let me know when you guys are ready.

Lool! Discussed it after I left? Did he buy you a beer for the read on me?

Yes, very curious, but please wait for a bit to see if anyone else has more thoughts about how we might play differently if we knew V had a read that Hero is a thinking player.

not sure to do much differently. I don't know bring your balls next time you travel and "bet that turn like a man."