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3/5 all turn options suck 3/5 all turn options suck

12-19-2014 , 07:23 PM
3-5. 500 max bet.
Hero 30, tightish image 1100.
Button 40, loose passive, not bluffy 2000.
Sb 50, super tricky, always slowplays his monsters to the last possible street 2000.

Hero 20 utg AdKh. Button calls. Sb calls.
Ah Jc 6h. Sb check, i bet 55, call, call.
4h. Sb checks, I?

I hate bet folding, bet calling, check calling, and check folding. It feels like someone could easily have hit a flush(esp sb, he will prob just call though).
3/5 all turn options suck Quote
12-19-2014 , 07:27 PM
Why do all options suck? I would just bet $115 and evaluate if someone raises.
3/5 all turn options suck Quote
12-19-2014 , 07:42 PM
I think a bet is in order here. These are the perfect players to bet here, because if your reads are correct, they arent going to raise unless they have it. I think a bet of $125 is a decent number and then if the button raises, we will just see if we have the odds or not to call.
3/5 all turn options suck Quote
12-19-2014 , 07:47 PM
Bet fold or bet call depending on the odds offered by someone raising you oop
3/5 all turn options suck Quote
12-19-2014 , 08:01 PM
Based on the read that SB slow plays his monsters to the river and the other villain is passive, this is a check on the turn. A passive player is going to be queasy with a queen high flush and you want to give the SB a chance to bluff at you on the river when you're holding the nuts. A better hand is going to force you to fold and a worse hand is folding to your bet. There are very few hands you beat right now that are going to call a bet on the turn.
3/5 all turn options suck Quote
12-19-2014 , 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
Based on the read that SB slow plays his monsters to the river and the other villain is passive, this is a check on the turn. A passive player is going to be queasy with a queen high flush and you want to give the SB a chance to bluff at you on the river when you're holding the nuts. A better hand is going to force you to fold and a worse hand is folding to your bet. There are very few hands you beat right now that are going to call a bet on the turn.
I'm reading SB's tendency as "won't check-bomb us" here, so I think a bet is in order -- they can each have a number of pair + J or Q combos that we're way ahead of and want to bet with while they still have a draw to the 2nd/3rd nuts (and build a bigger pot for when we make a 1-card nuts).

On top of that, we're never crushed, so given that it's opposition who in one spot won't raise us (too tricky) and in the other won't raise us (too passive), I don't think this is close.
3/5 all turn options suck Quote
12-20-2014 , 07:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindingLaser
I'm reading SB's tendency as "won't check-bomb us" here, so I think a bet is in order -- they can each have a number of pair + J or Q combos that we're way ahead of and want to bet with while they still have a draw to the 2nd/3rd nuts (and build a bigger pot for when we make a 1-card nuts).

On top of that, we're never crushed, so given that it's opposition who in one spot won't raise us (too tricky) and in the other won't raise us (too passive), I don't think this is close.
What worse hands that have the jack of hearts, that Villain could have, do we expect him to call with? We're behind AJ.

Why do you think that people who aren't crushed should bet, because that makes no sense at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
Based on the read that SB slow plays his monsters to the river and the other villain is passive, this is a check on the turn. A passive player is going to be queasy with a queen high flush and you want to give the SB a chance to bluff at you on the river when you're holding the nuts. A better hand is going to force you to fold and a worse hand is folding to your bet. There are very few hands you beat right now that are going to call a bet on the turn.
This advice sounds good.
3/5 all turn options suck Quote
12-20-2014 , 09:59 AM
Prob bet this turn most of the time, I like our hand a lot obv, but I guess checking occasionally is OK for balancing purposes if you do it with actual nuts also....but in a vacuum bet bet bet.
3/5 all turn options suck Quote
12-20-2014 , 12:00 PM
In a similar spot, I've seen a pro recommending check/calling here if we have the Kh but betting if we don't.

Does anyone concur?
3/5 all turn options suck Quote
12-20-2014 , 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzypants
In a similar spot, I've seen a pro recommending check/calling here if we have the Kh but betting if we don't.

Does anyone concur?
I just chk/f without the Kh if the passive bets it.

As played you get value from very little and even if the risk is small you might still get pushed off your hand, chk/c imo. Not to mention passive players suck ass at sizing their bets and he'll give us nice odds to draw to the nuts and stack him if he does happen to bet. If sb raises I'm folding.
3/5 all turn options suck Quote
12-20-2014 , 02:20 PM
Whenever we raise preflop and get callers and the board flops an Ace or a King and we bet and get called we need to tread carefully. Reason being, in LLSNL, whenever we raise preflop and get called our villains will ALWAYS put us on AK. That is the only hand in the entire universe we can ever have whenever we raise pre.

So when we do have AK and the board lands an A or K and we bet and get called our villains are doing so knowing we have top top (top pair top kicker). So the question then becomes "Well, what are they calling with".

-There are a lot of villains that peel one with anypair hoping to turn gin.
-On drawy boards quite often they are on a draw

Now, if our villain was competent then I would be in favor of Venice's line and check the turn because a competent villain is never paying us off and calling turn with AQ or AT. HOwever, the OP description says,

Quote:
Button 40, loose passive, not bluffy 2000.
Sb 50, super tricky, always slowplays his monsters to the last possible street 2000.
Believe it or not, this isn't too bad for our hand. BTN is loose passive meaning he should be a call down monkey and we do NOT have to worry about him bluffing us right?

SB slowplays to the river so again we don't have to worry about getting blasted off the turn.

So, we can bet here and expect SB to fold a fair amount of the time and the BTN to call a fair amount of the time with a lessor hand. In the case that the SB does call, then we know we have to hit river. If river is a brick then we can still bet/fold because SB has no bluffs in his range or if we pick up on some "tell" from SB we can just check it back on river and deny him his c/r. Meanwhile, BTN should pay us off with lessor hands because as the OP describes he is loose passive.

Again, if our villains were competent aggros then I could get behind a check back on turn. But based on OP descriptions, we can bet turn here.
3/5 all turn options suck Quote
12-23-2014 , 12:59 AM
We don't have to worry about getting bluffed by either opponent. If they raise they almost always have us beat. That is why my friend said I should never bet the turn because It's possible to not see the river and I NEED to see the river.

I bet 120. Button clicks it back to 240. Sb tank folds. I call 120. River 9h. I bet 330 and he called.

Thanks for the input guys. I was lucky he didn't raise more on the turn and blast me off of the hand. CIB/call off river heart, LOL live donks. He said he had Q high flush. Sb said he had AK and I believe him(he always tells the truth).
3/5 all turn options suck Quote

      
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