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3 and 4bet sizing live vs online 3 and 4bet sizing live vs online

01-08-2024 , 06:46 AM
Say we're playing a 1/3 or 2/5 100 bb deep and the standard open is 5bb. if we 3 bet oop to 4x (20 BB) and the opener calls the pot will be 44 bb pre rake 38-40 bb post rake for an spr of 2 ish. if we're the original raiser and we 4 bet, 2.5x would be 150bb. my question is how we should adjust our sizings compared to online play. should we 3bet smaller? should we 4bet smaller? or should we 3bet the same size and only 4bet jam? I'm so used to standard online sizings that I'm a bit unsure of how to play the larger sizings that are common love, especially at 1/3 or a weird game I sometimes play thats 1/2/2 and the 1 dollar blind is on the button.
3 and 4bet sizing live vs online Quote
01-08-2024 , 12:08 PM
I am usually going 4x minimum OOP and 3x minimum IP. When really short stacked maybe 2.5x IP and 3.5x OOP. Facing bigger raises definitely need to be tighter. Anytime we would make SPR less than 1 we should be jamming instead. Often times we should be 4bet jamming anyways.

Like say the game is 1/2/2, $200 deep, we open to $10 from MP, CO makes it $30, we can mainly jam our AKo, KK hands. Maybe click back to $60 sometimes with AA, AKs, balanced by a little A5s or something we could 4bet fold.

Always try to have an edge and play deeper where possible. Also, open raising smaller than the rest of the table can be good. I go $10 in 1/2, but I still go $10 at 1/3 and 15 at 2/5.

Facing big open raises our continue range should be very tight and mainly 3bet or fold, especially with rake, unless in the BB. Suited connectors are often going to be folds facing a large open raise and can even just be open folds as well. Seems nitty and dumb, but big open raise sizes does thst to the game.
3 and 4bet sizing live vs online Quote
01-08-2024 , 12:21 PM
I keep my sizings the same but if I'm only at 100 bb's (which I consider super shallow, btjm) I would tighten up my 3bet range before reducing my sizings.
3 and 4bet sizing live vs online Quote
01-08-2024 , 12:41 PM
Just 3bet live exploitative, that is all you need to know and to do
3 and 4bet sizing live vs online Quote
01-09-2024 , 12:37 AM
I don't typically sit 100bb deep in live games. I buy in for the max, and top off whenever my stack dips below 90% of the max. At 1/3, that's $500, and at 2/5, that's $1k.

Sitting 100bb deep doesn't work well in live games when the standard open is 4bb-5bb or more. It works even less well when people start straddling, or raising / 3B'ing bigger.

At 1/3, my standard open was $15 (5bb), assuming no or just 1 limp in front of me. For every limper, I'd add 1bb to my open. My standard 3B formula was 3x the raise, plus 1x for every player who'd VPIP'd already, plus 1x if I'm going to play OOP post-flop, and sometimes another 1x if we're deep-stacked and / or if I thought my raise still wouldn't get enough respect from 1 or more opponents.

At 2/5, it's a little less wild. I may still open the same size, $15 (3bb), though $20 (4bb) is also common. There are fewer loose-passive players, so 3B's aren't as large, either. How I size my 4B's is part art, part science, but they'll generally be no more than 3x the previous bet.

A recent example - I opened to $20 UTG (4bb), off a $2500 stack, got 3B to $80 (16bb / 4x) by UTG1 off a $1k stack, CO cold 4B to $200 (40bb / 2.5x, which I thought was a little too small) off a $1500 stack, and I 5B to $600 (120bb / 3x, what I roughly estimated my 5B size would have been OOP, had the CO used a slightly larger / more standard 4B size of $225 / 2.8x).

At 1/3, with the usual open sizes and typical stack depths, most 4B's are just jams. It's really unusual to see any 5B's at 1/3. Because of the insanely loose pre-flop action in some 1/3 games, I've been known to implement a limp-3B strategy from EP, with AA/KK/AKs/A5s, so I could put the pressure to fold or jam on opponents often opening too wide from MP/LP.

At 2/5, that's rarely necessary, though I've noticed more back-raising from MP at 2/5, so it may make sense to incorporate some flat-calls from various positions with some stronger hands.

In live low stakes games, it pays to be adaptable / flexible, and have a plan to exploit the weaker players at your table.
3 and 4bet sizing live vs online Quote
01-10-2024 , 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdave2304
Say we're playing a 1/3 or 2/5 100 bb deep and the standard open is 5bb. if we 3 bet oop to 4x (20 BB) and the opener calls the pot will be 44 bb pre rake 38-40 bb post rake for an spr of 2 ish. if we're the original raiser and we 4 bet, 2.5x would be 150bb. my question is how we should adjust our sizings compared to online play. should we 3bet smaller? should we 4bet smaller? or should we 3bet the same size and only 4bet jam? I'm so used to standard online sizings that I'm a bit unsure of how to play the larger sizings that are common love, especially at 1/3 or a weird game I sometimes play thats 1/2/2 and the 1 dollar blind is on the button.
Facing a 20bb three-bet, the opener should either just call or four-bet-jam.

5x "standard" opens are stupid and hella exploitable. We should be focused on exploiting this stupid mistake, not copying it.
3 and 4bet sizing live vs online Quote
01-10-2024 , 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick
Facing a 20bb three-bet, the opener should either just call or four-bet-jam.

5x "standard" opens are stupid and hella exploitable. We should be focused on exploiting this stupid mistake, not copying it.
I believe the higher rake at lower stakes games incentivizes raising larger, to win more pots pre-flop.

How would you go about exploiting players raising 5bb in a game where that's the standard?
3 and 4bet sizing live vs online Quote

      
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