1/2$ Horseshoe Hammond
Hero: Has been absolutely running like Usain Bolt...on fire. has about 1300$ behind. Everyone knows im getting hit in the face with the deck.

Villain: When I say he is bad, I mean he could possibly be the absolute worst, yet competent, poker player I have EVER played with....Top 5 for sure. By competent I only mean he knows the rules of poker, he is not a beginner wondering WTF a big blind is. He is in his mid 30s, white, super quiet guy, always leans on his fist when he is in the hand trying to give the 'poker face' to everyone. He is in the game for about 500 over the last 3 hours.

When I say he is bad, here is example: UTG+1 is a 60 year old nit with ~600 and opens a straddled pot to 35$ (this is a HUGE raise for our table standards). folds around to villain in BB and he completes. flop J22. he check calls 50 on flop. turn is 9 and he check calls 75. river is a blank and it goes check check. Villain turns over J2 for flopped full house and explains to the table the he kept checking bc he thought he was up against an overpair and was scared 'it' would come.

Villain was literally playing ATC for just about ANY open raise regardless of position. and check calling with ANY pair in 80% of his hands.

The Hand.
Folds to Hero who opens to 12$ with K8 in cutoff. Villain calls in BB. Headsup to flop. Hero has ~1300 and villain ~800 to start.

FLOP: AK4 (pot 25$)
Checks to hero who bets 25, villain call after about 5 seconds. This is typical for him

Turn: AK48 (pot 75$)
Checks to hero and I bet 65. again, 5 seconds and a call.

River: AK484 (pot 205$)
Villain takes about a 45 seconds to check (def out of the ordinary)....Hero??????

Besides being another club, I think this is probably the worst card to come. Any ace beats me now, and it is very possible that he has a 4.

I dont know if villain is check-calling with a 4 the whole way, or if he has some bare Ace, clubs...idk. I dont know if he realizes that IF he does have an Ace, he now uses the K for his kicker. He is so damn bad, I actually think to myself on the river, "I have no idea what to do"

What are your thoughts on how to play the river? Why?


I actually ended up staying til 630AM (10 hour session) specifically waiting to felt villain, he got up and left with 200 after losing big one to somebody else...and I had work today at 8am lol.

Also, for what its worth, Im checking back here 90% of the time against just about any player EXCEPT this guy...

Even though you can confidently assume that he's not capable of c/raising on a bluff, I don't see any value in betting here. The only hands that make it to this river, that you beat, are Kx hands. Ax, flushes, 4x all beat you, and he's not folding any of that. Given passive read from j2 hands, his range for c/cing every street is stronger than we typically perceive. I check.

Also, his river hesitation seems like a genuine decision on whether or not to bet his 4. really bad/new players like you describe are usually pretty transparent in their live timing tells.

edit: LOL, probably some pp with a club?

Without looking at the spoiler...

LOL

I'm usually all for thin value especially vs passive stations, but this just seems too thin for me. Doubt you get called by worse more than 50% of the time. But anyway, nice job extracting. I think missing a value bet is always worse than value owning yourself, especially at 1/2.

Easiest check in the world, especially since he'll never give you an indication he has a nutty hand.

Based on your posted read this bet on the river makes no sense. There's probably at least a 5% chance he called you with an Ace and didn't realize he had the winner.

Probably need some more reads on how villain plays (i.e. we've seen hand where he slowplayed a big hand, but we don't really have an idea of how big a payoff monkey he is/isn't with underpairs on a 2 overpair board, whether he is a big bluff monkey, etc.).

I also raise preflop.

If villain can be an aggressive bluff monkey when we show weakness, or would have no problems folding an underpair to this flop, then I wouldn't hate a flop check. Otherwise, I'm fine with the cbet.

I also bet the turn thinking I'm probably ahead of most of his hands and I want to charge single card flush draws.

Worlds easiest check behind on the river, IMO. I just don't see how this guy could call a river bet with anything we beat unless he truly is the world's worst payoff monkey. ETA: Missed the fact that worse Kx's pay off, but methinks this is too thin, especially against a guy who likes to slow play his monsters.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I'm checking it back. Betting here seems a little thins. We have two pair on a board that is paired and has a flush possibility. I have a small hand relatively. Small hand, small pot.

Also, if you bet and he raises, What would you do? I'd rather take my hand to showdown and hope its good.
the small pot

grunch

Check the river. You don't beat anything with showdown value on this type of board.

check back river. Nothing that you beat calls.

also playing K8s in CO is a losing play.

Huh? Opening any two playable cards when folded to in the CO seems totally standard to me.

i totally agree with checking it back on the river...I have no clue why I tossed a bet in on the river. I guess it just took 5 of you guys to pound it in my head that there is only one correct river play...thanks guys

I totally agree IF the table is a bit on the passive side. If there are alot of 3bets pre, then I would say it might not be my preference to open in the CO. But like my OP says, I was running like God during this session and could not miss. If this was the case and you looked down at K8s, im pretty sure many would feel comfortable opening to 6x with $1300 behind.

Checking behind on the river is a no brainer. There is literally nothing even a fish could be holding that would call you that you could beat.

He may be bad, but he could easily have an ace or two clubs. These will bet back at you putting you in a bad spot. It's usually questionable EV to fold on the river against fish who overvalue their hands. You may wind up paying him depending on his bet size.

Also, it sounds like this guy likes to slow play and check-raise. That's why he went check, check, check with a boat against the old nit. He wanted to check-raise the river. Because he is a fish, he didn't realize he was doing this against the wrong guy.

grunch, is it possible that he mucked an Ace when u announced 2 pair?

very possible with this guy...yesterday i was playing and other people at the table were talking about this VERY SAME GUY....even the dealer chimed in and said he was terrrrrrrible. When a dealer has somethign to say, you know he is BAD!