This is one of the better posts i ought to respond
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Originally Posted by I'mAFrenchDonkey
At first i would have been super balanced and maybe oriented towards a call (thinking player, can have the nuts while we can't so can 3bet bluff for "big" moniez - 160BB to call and see -) but the more i read this hand the more i think it's a fold because of the 4way effect : since it's a 4way the weak valueish check/call range of Heroine otf folds a lot more (that it would be HU) so when we get to the river she has a lot less hands that she can turn into a bluff, and in the same time Villain will probably (not that sure) barrel way less often hands like QJ on the turn
Im actually calling flop fairly wide because im sure hes cbetting with everything~ But i dont know if he knows this. As I said i had been unusually tight this session, so this may either signal to him that ill fold a lot post, which means i should be bluffcatching a lot, or that my range has lots of PPs(remember I am first to call his raise pre), or both.
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So yeah 1) hands that Heroine can turn into a bluff with a river c/r can be discounted
I dont think so. He should think its pretty unlikely that i perceive him as a player capable of bluffjamming, as opposed to a just good reg, a high enough % of the time, that id be scared to c/r bluff - for the reasons BoredAtheist mentions. Not that this was going through my head at the time, nor through his most likely. Id expect him though to consider that my range postturn is very weak showdown value, or 2pair+, and that im turning the former into a bluff pretty often rather than just leading which i may consider less effective.
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2) Villain might cbet 67 (with backdoor flushs and str8) even 4way in order to barrel turns like QKA or flush draws/str8 draws cards he would hit (only the 5 and 9 to have an open ender) while deciding to check his gutshots, the same for QJ so a check on his part is not contradictory with the fact he can easily have QJ/67 river, i think it's even more likely to be in hsi river range than when he barrels the T ott
Yes
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EDIT : disagree with the one people (haven't read the whole thread) saying that Vilain can check TT on the turn, it's not like when you're Vilain playing the hand you will think "Niark niark niark i check the T so river i can't have TTT and i will obviously run into a guy checkraise/calling the river with an under set" even a really good player will think IMO "we are deep, i have top set i want to get value now"
Yes, its also equally silly when people say bet/call the river is better because the V will obviously bluff raise here in a spot where my range is relatively polarized (again 8x- and 89+) and we might be getting range cap bluff shoved (wouldnt it actually be a good thing if hes doing that) I mean come guys hes going to bet here so often (esp we have 8 blockers) and our checking range cant be all ways weak and the leading range always strong and if we lead he folds way more than raises... there are so many many reasons why lead and c/r are both viable imo,,,