Hero has 64cc

[Hero Limp btn 20]

[SB raise 160] SB is a big fish not raising thaat much pre but being aggro postflop, i have seen him spazz alot and do stuff like limpcall huge raise of 300 and then ch/snapcall a overbet shove of 1000 on QT7 with T8

[BB call 160]: BB is a whale, very aggro both pre and post, spazz raises alot and could definetly stack off with stuff like bottom pair and FD for 150bb
[
Hero call 140]

6s4s8h [480]
SB bets 300, BB calls 300, hero raise 1200, SB 3bets to 2500, BB shove 2300 total, to hero.

SB and hero has 6500 behind.

SB range IMO: AA-JJ definetly think he can overplay those no doubt, some AKss AQss, KQss combos definetly. 88 (44 i think he just limp pre as well as 66)
68s,84s. Definetly he will stsckoff and play like this any kind of strongish combodraw like 79ss, 7Ass, 8xss.
Ofc 57s as well.

BB range imo: QQ/JJ (he does not 3bet often he just likes to open preflop but not 3b, seen him limp/call raise with AA and only call with QQs SBvBB)
Same as SB any kind if combodraw like 79ss,A7ss, 8xss, 44/66/88/68s/48s/57s/57o


Definetly not sure about their ranges and would like help on this.

I think its close and annoying spot, as ive said they are both LAG monkeys loose as **** and aggro as hell, but i still think that maybe it shld be a fold?

You need to work on better player descriptions. From the sound of it, SB has a tight raising range but spazzes often post flop. This is a no brainer shove on flop. Even if BB has u crushed on flop always, you can win a huge side pot and only have to call $1100 more against the bb. If description is accurate, SBs range in Big overpairs and nut FDs only so you're never behind him. And you have BB beat sometimes. Also only 5 combos of set instead of 9

Did you limp or raise on the button? If you limped, than you're calling 155 not 140, yes?

Anyway, SB's preflop 3betting range here is probably pretty narrow. There's hardly any dead money in there to steal. You describe him as someone who would call almost any two for any price preflop, but isn't hyper-aggro preflop. Thus, I think he has a pretty standard range of AA-88 + big aces. Now, what does he have when he 3bets the flop? I would weight this heavily to overpairs because of the fact that he's involved in a 3 way pot. If he has an overpair here, he knows if he just calls then BB for sure is going to call and then he's going to be oop vs. 2 players and hate just about every turn card - this is especially true if he has a hand like QQ. So I see him preferring a 3bet w/ overpairs (I don't think he's good enough to fold them). AK/AQ/AJ I would think he's more likely to just flat call your raise otf, but I wouldn't discount them from his range either. It's also possible that he has 88 - but that's the only hand we're doomed against.

BB I wouldn't be worried about at all. Ask yourself this - would a super aggro whale ever flat call a made hand on a super wet flop vs. the man who stacks off w/ everything. For any price. In the world's deepest 2/5 game? He could seriously have 45 here. And probably no better than 87o or 97o (maybe QQ/JJ too, considering your read). If he's super aggro like you say - any flush draw/combo draw/made hand is raising that flop every time.

So yea, I'm shoving this. Worrying about one of them showing up w/ 75/super combo draw/sets/whatever is kind of mubsy imo.

Super deep the game becomes more about "having the nuts" vs "having anything else" when stacks go in.

So no worrying about those hands isn't mubsy. It's part of careful range analysis.

...just trying to picture myself going to a flop in $160 in a 2-5 with 4-6 :P

srry cant be much help, this is like ridiculously deep...i think your against at least one Asxs/broadways spades draw...so maybe stuck in this one

Sry guys i didnt point it out correctly.

Its CROWNS (swedish currency) 20/20 equals to 2/5$

So i limped 20 crowns ($5) and called 140 raise more ($35)!

Its still very deep, me and SB has around 450bb preflop, while BB has 150bb preflop

You guys noticed that this is 20/20 Swedish Crowns, right, not 2/5 USD? It is approx same size as 2/5, which is why OP put that in there, but the BB is 20 SEK. It looks like we're bout tree fiddy BBs deep vs SB, and 135BB deep vs BB.

Edit: Ninja'd by OP. sigh

lol thx that clears it up quite a bit

Alright, with that cleared out, what do u guys think about the hand?

I myself decided to shove.

Thoughts on this?

Given this read "seen him spazz alot and do stuff like limpcall huge raise of 300 and then ch/snapcall a overbet shove of 1000 on QT7 with T8," I like it.

Very few V's would I be willing to get 350BBs in with bottom two, but this is prob the guy.

So it folded to you and you limped the button? FWIW, I'd throw all my jewelry in there including the crowns... probably a watch too. Why limp call OTB with 64 if we are going to fold when we flop toppest 2 against 2 supposedly loose aggro spew stations?

Limp cus if i raise i build an unnecesary pot with close to no fold equity preflop, limp/called cus im IP and can easily extract alot of money if i hit a str8/flush.

On this exact board tho, they can easy have alot that crushes my bottom 2p, and the absolute main part of this is that this hand is designed to win maybe a 100-200bb pot if we do not have a str8 350-400bb deep it is definetly not smart to blindly stack off with the mindset "we called pre now we have to stackoff AI cus we hit 2p"

So basically they are not two aggro tards like you say they are and they actually could have hands that beat you and what not. Just fold pre, bro. Your burning money if your whole mindset is I am trying to flop a str8/flush. Straight's are hard to make/flop and your flush isn't always good. The best part of your hand in a situation like this is FE and some potential for hidden made hands. You have zero FE so just fold it... If there were limps before you and it was a decent size multiway pot then we can talk about limping in.

Also - "SB bets 300, BB calls 300, hero raise 1200" Why are you raising here if - "On this exact board tho, they can easy have alot that crushes my bottom 2p, and the absolute main part of this is that this hand is designed to win maybe a 100-200bb" ???

What was the point of your raise?

Im saying im ready to STACK OFF 400BB with a str8 or flush, that does NOT mean i fold every other freaking hand. In this hand, if they just called flop, i could bet turn and bet river for value. But thats not how it played out.

Often i could flop an occasional pair or ,2p/trips and get value from that. That does not mean im ready to stackoff my whole stack just cus of that.

In this hand im raising in hopes to get calls from any FD/str8draw/pair or just simply take down the pot. Also if SB folds i can easily gii vs BB as he is not super deep. Worst case scenario would be like in this case where they both go over the top vs my raise

So what you are saying is you raised for value expecting to get called all the time by worse and only raised by better... The problem with that thought process is this:

[SB raise 160] SB is a big fish not raising thaat much pre but being aggro postflop, i have seen him spazz alot and do stuff like limpcall huge raise of 300 and then ch/snapcall a overbet shove of 1000 on QT7 with T8

[BB call 160]: BB is a whale, very aggro both pre and post, spazz raises alot and could definetly stack off with stuff like bottom pair and FD for 150bb

These guys seems capable of stacking off and pushing with FD's, OP's, OESD's, Pair + SD, etc etc etc.

I guess raise fold since that's what you want to hear.

This
Is very different from this
You've seen him "spaz" by ch/calling a big bet. Have you seen him take very aggressive actions post flop? He is bet/3betting the flop after all, most fish would need a super strong hand to do this. I'm folding without further reads.

I think folding this pre flop with these two in the blinds would be a very big mistake.

But it would line up with this

OP if the board was 649 and the action was the same, what would you do?

Ahhhhh ok, that clears things up.

And I hear ya OP, I'm not saying we should auto stack off whenever we hit 2 pair like this either. I suppose SB's preflop raising range might be a little bit wider than I originally thought, but I'm still having a hard time seeing hands like 75 turn up a lot. I'm also still not concerned w/ BB and pretty much have him on the same range as before (maybe a small flush draw is in there as well).

It's a tough spot because this in general is a pretty marginal hand to be committing to such a huge pot with. But I still think he would do this w/ an over-pair (which is his most likely hand imo), which still makes this a shove to me.

Knowing this hand is from where it is means there is a LOT of silly money out there...

I think the key for me to analyse this hand is how aggro SB has shown to be post-flop in other hands. The hand you pick as example is a bad/too loose pf call that then is almost comitted when hitting mid pair vs someone that invested 25% of stack pre. I don't think that call qualifies as crazy at all, only a bit bad pf play depending on position and how many players were in.

Without more history on SB I find it hard to fold. If he has not shown post flop 3-bet/raises, then I would fold quite confidently, but if he has shown this behaviour with tp/op hands then I cannot fold here.

Im calling. Both vs probably see the board as harmless, so their moves are based on the strength of their starting hands. I would expect to see one pocket pair and one big flush draw. Id be shocked to see a set altho 88 is possible

BTW, this deep I probably just peel one (call the 300) if I am not comfortable with raise/gii line. Re-eval turn and go from there.

Have played with SB only once b4, so not that much info on his postflop tendencies, but yeah he is aggro loose both pre and post no doubt.

Agree with this whole post.

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Be more inclined to fold.