2/5NL on a Friday evening.

V1 (1500): seems like a fishy player..certainly TALKS like a fishy player. Doesn't play too many hands.. seems to play fairly straightforward. Makes big bets with big hands and small bets with small hands. Haven't noticed anything fancy/tricky about him. Earlier I opened to $25 after UTG limper, someone called on the button, and this guy made it $300 to go with AA. Of course everyone folds and he shows.

V2 (800): may be semi-decent/competent. First hand I seen him play he straddled to 10 with a $300 stack. I opened to $30 UTG, get 2 callers, and he makes it $130 to go with 99, some donk called him on the button with 86 and this guy flops a set of 9s and doubles up. Haven't seen him do much else. I get the impression that he plays aggressively with strong/semi-strong hands.

Hero (400): just moved to table maybe an hour ago. Haven't done anything because I've been card dead. I'm Asian and fairly young looking, so that might give them some reads on me. =P

3 limpers, including both Villains (V1-MP, V2-BTN), SB folds, I check BB A2.

Flop (20) 4way: A Q 9
I check, first guy checks, V1 bets $15, V2 calls, I call, limper folds.

Turn (65) 3way: J
I check, V1 bets $30, V2 calls, I check raise to $110.

I thought V1's range for betting here is probably Ax, probably not AJ/AQ because he'd most likely raise those preflop plus he'd probably bet bigger on the turn. Same goes for A9. He could have AT I suppose, but I'm thinking smaller As. V2's range should be fairly similar except he's gonna have some combos of like JT/QT/KJ, or other random pair+draw type of hands. Either way, I don't think it's likely they can continue to stand too much heat with their range of hands, especially V2. I figured as long as I can get V1 out of the way, I should have V2's range pretty smashed here, at least a 2:1 favorite, and I don't mind going to the river with him.

Thoughts?

Your thinking is spot on IMO, I think both V's are weak and the best hand they show up with is AT or similar pair with gutshot if they call your raise.

If/WHEN you get called, do you plan on betting the river or checking because A2 might be ahead?

I think I usually bet since a lot of better hands (mainly Ax's) will have to fold if I represent a strong hand on the river.

I'm not sure if I love the play however since I think we are going to the river with one of them and we will have to bet AI or close to our stack and be guessing as to if they hit or not since we are OOP.

Two problems here that aren't solvable are our weak hand and our lack of position. The CR on the turn SHOULD look strong and get them to fold most holdings, but I never count on relative unknown players folding!

As played I like the turn CR, if I get one caller I think I'm shoving or betting most of my stack (whichever I think will look stronger) on ANY river, we can't guess if the hits them or the T or whatever - we have to represent it or a strong hand after we raise the turn.

Good question. I should have thought about it a bit more about what I was going to do on certain rivers. I just thought that when I raise here, I should be able to get them to fold like 90% of their range and didn't give much more thought to it than that. But, I like your plan of betting allin on pretty much any river. True, sometimes I will get snapped off by a flush/str8 or whatever, but most of the time, I'm going to take it down on the river vs pairs/2pairs/As, that it should still be a profitable shove.

As played, I was planning on c/f most rivers because I don't think villain's going to bluff me in that spot considering that my line is like nuts/air and if they have ANYTHING (which they should if they called my turn c/r) they will have showdown value and wouldn't need to bluff to win.

Thoughts?

Yea, this is where your play falls to pieces IMO, if we already had two pair on the turn then fine, but as it is we lose to too many hands that would fold to try and check for value OTR and fold to any bet.

We've committed 1/3rd of our stack and giving up when we start coming after the pot seems really weak/bad to me.

I also think you have over-estimated their fold equity here, yes they SHOULD fold 90% of their range, but when do two fishy V's ever fold 90% of what they should when we bet strong?

Almost never, which is why I don't particularly like this play here. IP or vs a player you know will fold better (like a nit or a good reg) to your big CR I'd make this play.

This is a terrible play. You have a ****ty hand and you're oop.

Seems pretty terrible. Pretty easy fold on the flop IMO.

You give idiots way too much credit.


I'm fine with this. It's a bad hand to c/c, especially multi-way, the entire way. And while we don't beat a ton outright there are a lot of hands that are slightly ahead of us that either fold to our turn raise or at least just flat this raise and check the river so we get to a showdown vs 2nd pair-broadway gutshot type hands.

We have less fold equity vs idiots and reverse implied odds.