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2/5NL straight/flush facing heavy multiway flop action 2/5NL straight/flush facing heavy multiway flop action

02-18-2015 , 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Grunch: (means haven't read any replies)
Don't!
2/5NL straight/flush facing heavy multiway flop action Quote
02-18-2015 , 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudonym
Because if we shove the flop we get paid when we hit the turn. If we call the flop we don't get paid when we hit the turn.
Do you realize that your argument is basically stating that it's higher EV to shove 72o pre than to call?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudonym
Ok, try this...

Whatever our decision, we pay him the max every time we miss our draw. Right?
That decision has already been made when we committed ourselves for the main pot.

Only option to deviate from that is that the hand is check down to river and our hand doesn't improve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudonym
However, there is only one decision which leads to him paying us the max every time we hit our draw. Which decision would that be?
See the 72o example.

For whatever reason, I love using examples, so here is another one.

Say you have 72o pre and your only options are to call or raise, never fold.

Your argument is basically saying that the only decision for our opponents to pay max is to shove while we are behind, because they play perfectly and they will only put chips in when they're ahead.

Correct...but please don't tell me that you truly believe that to be max EV.
2/5NL straight/flush facing heavy multiway flop action Quote
02-18-2015 , 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudonym
However, there is only one decision which leads to him paying us the max every time we hit our draw. Which decision would that be?
Now we are getting to the bottom of this.

So if hero has 72o and V has AA, cards are flipped over.

You think it is higher EV to shove pre because you don't want AA to fold when we hit it on the flop?
2/5NL straight/flush facing heavy multiway flop action Quote
02-18-2015 , 08:50 PM
Am I allowed to fold my 72o on the flop or not?
2/5NL straight/flush facing heavy multiway flop action Quote
02-18-2015 , 08:53 PM
No, same as current scenario.
2/5NL straight/flush facing heavy multiway flop action Quote
02-18-2015 , 09:00 PM
All in.
2/5NL straight/flush facing heavy multiway flop action Quote
02-18-2015 , 09:02 PM
Kind of grunch, I noticed everyone yelling that this is an easy shove, but I prefer a call in this spot because under no circumstances do I want to lose the other 2 players. By this, I'm not simply referring to the extra $200 that UTG+1 would have to call but also the strength that a shove may represent in their minds. If you think they will both call a shove, then shove but I've seen players fold for ridiculous low amounts of money when faced with heavy action because "I can't beat you all" A lot of times they aren't even thinking about future streets and the fact that you are likely to put in your last $200 on the turn.
2/5NL straight/flush facing heavy multiway flop action Quote
02-18-2015 , 09:12 PM
FWIW, just calling on the flop is never going to be a horrible spot here simply because shoving is essentially a $200 heads up bet with UTG+1 and when we have an equity advantage against him it is only slightly so and based on the action I'd argue that we are actually at an equity disadvantage vs his range meaning that if we don't actually put in the final $200 that's a slight net positive.

If he just flats the raise in this spot (normally he would shove for us) he is probably going to check the turn as well giving us a free card. At the same time, when we do hit a straight or a flush he will be unlikely to fold particularly on the turn.
2/5NL straight/flush facing heavy multiway flop action Quote
02-18-2015 , 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudonym
All in.
You win sir, you win.
2/5NL straight/flush facing heavy multiway flop action Quote

      
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