its all about if you think he has AA or not, no 1 in this forum can tell you what to do you must make the best choice you can, id set mine either way...

You have KK,
AK isn't impossible but complicated.
KK lol !!
4bet with JJ unlikely
With AA, the 4bet is very strong but the OR is UTG
Likely he has QQ, IMO
But if you call(OOP), the SPR is 1,5 and you are practically committed on any flop
I think that we should play more clear spots

I'm curious to see what happened. I believe he has AA here 95% of the time honestly. Very tough spot both pre and post..however I think I may find a fold pre depending on how I personally view V. AP I like the shove, he could think 'omg aces cracked' to a set of JJ or whatever, or stack off with QQ and if he has AA... welp he has AA.

Definitely good to discuss merits of other streets, but you really the made the decision pre-flop. So call and never fold. That's basically your plan here, and the hand plays itself now on this board. You see AA or QQ here a lot, so that makes things 50/50, you either win or you don't.

Hopefully you actually flopped KK5 but just wanted feedback on what to do if you weren't a luckbox.

i still think with his sizing villain has the other KK and like a bluff shove pre... heh

Results:

Think you played the flop perfectly given stacks. Shoving > calling. If you just call, you only have 400 left with 1300 in the pot and are totally committing to the hand. But a turn A or K could scare villain off of the 6 combos of one of the only hands hands you're likely to be beating soundly - QQ.

Nh wp.

Congrats !!
WP !!

Result?

.

Op what if the board came Q high, or J high. What do you do if he bets $400?

wj your spoilers never work for me

Q-high I would have folded. The board did come J high and he did bet $400...I shoved.

nh dude, you owned his preflop sizing pretty good

I think if he made it $190 I might have folded pre or just 5b/get it in, still not sure.

lol might have folded or put in 1k, whats the difference among friends :P

wj, why do you put him on a weaker range with a bigger bet? If he 4b's to 180 pre do you still play it the same way? It seems the general consensus from the more experienced posters here is that bigger bet was more likely QQ/JJ than AA. Also if the board came A high and he bets 400, what do you do? I'm just curious what would look like AA to you after you 3b to 60 and get 4b, what amount?

Something like $175-205 would look more like AA. I agree that a thinking player might go $240 hoping I have KK and am never folding, setting up an SPR where I will always stack off on low flops.

I see this all the time at $1/2 - for example, last week I'm playing $1/2 and get dealt JJ on the button. Asian woman in CO raises to $17, I flat, and another Asian woman in the SB with a stack of $105 raises to $45. Does she ever have something other than AA here? The small sizing says "I don't care what the flop is, I'm shoving if called". When they have JJ-KK, they usually just shove all-in there since they are afraid of overcards hitting the board.

I think the same thing applies here, just on a larger scale. Sure, some people will 4b huge because they don't want their aces cracked, but they usually want to draw you in. IMO his play is just terrible because the only hands calling or raising such a huge 4bet are KK and AA and he's OOP so he gets stuck cbetting all low flops and then getting jammed on by KK/AA.

If the board comes A-high and he bets $400 I just call since he probably never plays AA that way and 4betting AK that big just isn't in most people's game, other than a few of the tough LAG players at this casino that play AK like it's AA every time. Why would anyone bet $400 on the a dry ace-high flop with AA when nothing except AK (theoretically) or a lower set is going to call? Then he gets himself into a really crappy spot on the turn where I shove when he checks and I call when he shoves.

The only different thing I do is call the flop but I don't think shoving there is bad, of course the A hits and kills our action.

I think what wj and ava said is true unless villain is a short stacker who has run up a big stack. Seems like people like that are so afraid of getting their AA cracked since they can't fold they bomb every street.

Interesting thoughts on sizing. In my experience at 1/2 V's have no idea what they're doing with sizing and don't really even think about it one way or another. I get min raised just as often as 3/4x. Does this change much at 2/5? My biggest read in my games is that I just got 4 bet. It happens so infrequently that I haven't really taken time to think about how to interpret it as most of the time I don't have uber strong hands when it happens.

Come east my friend. Be thirsty.

Interesting. My games play very loose, and can get goofy aggro postflop, but (in general) cold 4bets are AA and AA alone *unless* the villain happens to be one of the handful of guys who get aggro pre.

Maybe it's regional, and I'm not in Vegas, but this is what I see. I saw a hand go unopened to the CO, a woman limped (BTN was a reg and wasn't going to chop-block), but the woman limped. Checked to river, she tabled QJ. Either just let the chop happen and let's go, or how are you not raising QJ unopened from the CO? How weak is that to get 6 folds, limp the $2 from the CO and not even take stabs in pos. post flop? I've seen the guy with 9x tank-call with bottom boat on the x99JJ board a million times, I'm numb to that now, but that QJ hand shocked me. So when she min 3-bet me pf does she ever do this with ATs/98s/66? Never, it's KK+ and she want to trap me. There was actually a hand I made it $11 pre, she made it $22 and I insta-mucked and she got mad to the point as if I wasn't allowed to. They're raising to make sure they get to a river and table AA and feel like a pro, not raise for value.

I'd just get this in preflop as I think he has no bluffs in his range and we have no evidence to see that he's capable of folding qq/ak maybe even jj or aq pre yet he may fold these hands on the flop. We have pretty much telegraphed we have a big hand with a call anyway. Furthermore when we jam we can't be bluffed off our hand if he has qq and it comes a high.

I play these middle aged guys all te time who look like they only have aces in this spot but overplay other strong hands so much That they really don't. Maybe theyve been card dead and are itching to play, maybe they r an absolute punter with 10k in reloads. You can't always tell and just because they r middle aged doesn't mean as much as it could.