my image is kinda nitty and villian and i have a lil history from past but none this session as he sat down kinda recently. hes an asian i think in like his late 30s or early 40s and is kinda solid but does limpy stuff pre often but good postflop.

im in cutoff and it folds to me i open to 15 with KK
button (fish i guess) calls
villian makes it 45 total in sb and started hand with like 610 and i barely cover
folds back to me and i make it 155 total
button instashoves allin (he had like 190 or 200 total)
sb also instashoves allin on top

im facing about 450 to call here or maybe 460 or 470ish

when i ask him to count his chips he counts em up real quickly and says 610 total and seems pretty confident

idk much about his preflop game but does anyone else think his shove here is super strong since im pretty rarely 4betting here without premium hands and he has 0 fold equity with his hand since buttons already allin?

SUX to be in that position with cowboys. Given the fish did that limp-reraise play (which fish love and overuse) and a very strong raise and reraise from the SB, I'd drop the kings. This is one of those cases where stack protection takes precedence. This is not the time to blow off 610 in winnings. If the stacks were shorter, then maybe call and gamble. Someone's sure to have aces wired here a lot.

If neither produces pocket aces, file that away for future reference.

Why do you want 4 bet with KK in this situation?

Hero is forced to 4bet here. Flatting keeps in the fish, but we get stacked by AA on almost every flop anyways. I hate your sizing. I would 4 bet fold to $90 pre. Keeps in his PPs and AK and he 5bets AA

Wp hero now call

4bet/fold to $90 is so bad thats effectively a raise to "see where you are at"

Im not folding KK for 120bbs in this spot. Pay off his aces and stack the rest of his range.

This^^

What were you trying to do. Personally I'd flat call here, you've got position on the 3-bettor, you don't need to get too worried about the fish unless an Ace drops. You want to keep the SB's range wide, and see what he does on the flop.

As played, I'm not big on folding Kings pre, but in this case I'd let them go, that 5-bet shove-shove is ridiculously strong.

Don't like the 4bet if there's not a clear decision on what to do if shoved on. Also don't like the 4bet because it blows the fish out of the hand and usually isolates us against the top part of V's range.

i 4bet planning to call it off but the fact that buttons stayed in and jammed the rest of his stack in seemed odd and id gladly gamble 200 bux with button but when sb overjams it seems huge here

The 4 bet sizing is really far too large and can only be value. A good legit 4 bet size would be around 2.5x his raise or 115 or so. This 155 is never ever a bluff and cannot fold now ever, so we erroneously priced ourselves into a terrible situation.

I would have raised to $20 to begin with.

I also would flat the 3 bet and allow the fish to stay in the pot.

You probably should not put the results in the OP. It will bias many of the replies.

Grunch

I've not seen the spoiler but I just call the 3 bet if u 4 bet the only hand shoving on u is AA we want to keep JJ QQ AK in the hand

What do we think of villain's 3-bet range? 5-bet range? It's an easy call if he does this with QQ or worse, easy fold if he doesn't. Up to you to figure out.

$155 is way too much as a 4-bet. I'd go like $105 so you can re-ship if BTN ships and villain flats.