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2/5NL deep - flop middle, get action... bet sizing? 2/5NL deep - flop middle, get action... bet sizing?

05-17-2011 , 10:57 PM
hero has been at the table for 8 hrs and it is early in the morning. hero has been really card dead and has not gotten in many big hands except for one during which hero cbets $75 with AK into 2 donks on a JT5r board (~$125 pot), villian #2 minraises with another $100 behind, hero shoves having 2 overs, a gut shot and a bdfd. turn gives hero broadway, river is a J, villian shows JT for the nut boat. hero is currently stuck a few hundred.

villian #1 - young guy. not sure if he's an internet player new to live play or just a college kid from FSU (as colleges just got out for the summer)... but he seems decent, but not great. haven't gotten in any hands with him yet, but he calls a little light, imo.

villian #2 - huge fish, huge calling station. this guy is on a once in a lifetime heater. sat with $300 a few hours ago and is now sitting on over $3k. every draw has hit, he smashes every flop, sucks out left and right, openly plays hands blind, makes terrible calls preflop. its really just sick. aside from previously mentioned hand above, hero has not gotten involved with him in any sizeable pots. this guy has been gunning for hero a little bit after hero made the comment to an older man at the table that he is friendly with that "if villian #2 wants to call a 7x prf with T4o (he hit a boat, ldo) then happy birthday to me." villian #2 heard this comment and was angry. hero, however, acknowledges in retrospect that such a comment was probably a little out of line. (don't berate the fish)

finally, hero has shown a few bluffs this session, which is rare. hero generally plays tag abc, but has had recent concerns about his play becoming transparent to a lot of the regs. therefore, hero has been mixing it up a little in position and isolating/squeezing more in position with suited connectors, etc and betting flops that hit my perceived range and taking down the vast majority of them, then showing the cbet with air. (side point - comments on this in terms of meta game and not allowing one's hands to be too easily readable, as i fear mine have as of late)

the hand...

villian #1 (sb) - $1000
hero (ep) - $1500 dealt 99
villian #2 (mp) $3000+

utg limps, hero limps (raise even if in early pos?), another limper, villian #2 makes it $20 (has been raising every hand he plays to $15 or $20, so this really means nothing), everyone calls, hero calls.

flop: $140, 7 players

Q96

villian #1 leads for $75, folds to hero... ??????????

hero REALLY wants villian #2 in the hand, but clearly, flatting could be a disaster on a fairly wet board such as this. villian #2 would call $75 with nearly any piece of this flop, but also any draw. K, J, T, 7, 8 or any spade could have us in awful shape and drawing thin to the river.

hero is raising... but how much, with 3 goals in mind?

1. raising for value
2. raising to give villian #1 incorrect odds if drawing, but tempting enough so he doesn't lay down TPGK or something like that.
3. keeping villian #2 in the hand to get (hopefully) another 2 streets of value from him.

hero raises to ____________??
2/5NL deep - flop middle, get action... bet sizing? Quote
05-17-2011 , 11:09 PM
Well, I think any raise is going to make it hard for V2 to over-call. His range for over-calling is probably huge draws and 2pair+, so I don't think you have to undersize the raise to keep him in. He's either coming or he's not. I think it's more important that we focus on an appropriate raise size to deny V1 odds and keep him in.. I think having a plan to milk V2 on multiple streets is wishful thinking when he has yet to put any more money in the pot; instead, we should shift our focus mainly to the player we do know is interested (V1).

$275 sets up for a <pot-sized shove OTT against V1 and protects your hand well. I think more than $300 is too strong and gets too many folds, but less than $250 gives villain great odds to chase and makes a turn shove awkward.

Edit: didn't see your note on V2 being a huge station. I stick with the raise size of $275 though if he's calling any solid piece.
2/5NL deep - flop middle, get action... bet sizing? Quote
05-17-2011 , 11:44 PM
250-275 sounds right....along with canoodles analysis about what V2 would call with if you raise, even if he is a fish on a heater he can see blatant strength when its a raise and a reraise in front of him...he wont be calling with some weak Q, if he really is a fish hope he has AQ or an overpair and he might call or even go AI. I expect V1 to fold out weaker TPs, probably only calling with AQ or KQ (though he might fold idk how well he plays),2ps, folding out his smaller FDs, calling with SDFDs
2/5NL deep - flop middle, get action... bet sizing? Quote
05-18-2011 , 12:29 AM
Sorry, trying to think this one through but I'm confused, SB lead out (villain 1) into 6 players, it folds to you in EP. How many players are left to act behind you?
2/5NL deep - flop middle, get action... bet sizing? Quote
05-18-2011 , 01:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAEVentures
Sorry, trying to think this one through but I'm confused, SB lead out (villain 1) into 6 players, it folds to you in EP. How many players are left to act behind you?
4 players.

I was utg+1 preflop.
2/5NL deep - flop middle, get action... bet sizing? Quote
05-18-2011 , 01:18 AM
Sounds like a good spot for over-bet.

The table sounds very stationy, and it's early in the morning. You will get called by hands that will call $250, even if you raise to $350 IMO. Plus there's history of you overplaying AK, I think I would go for overbet of $320-350 in this spot.
2/5NL deep - flop middle, get action... bet sizing? Quote
05-18-2011 , 01:19 AM
275-300; right now you want to be raising enough to set up a pot sized shove on the turn...I agree with 275 as people naturally are adverse to the higher sticker shock that 300 has as opposed to 275. 275 is also big enough to not give draws proper odds to draw. If called and with a SPR of 1 and position you are in good shape
2/5NL deep - flop middle, get action... bet sizing? Quote
05-18-2011 , 01:39 AM
On one hand you want to keep the "fish" in the pot.

However, when reading V1's hand - do you really think he leads a weak hand (in this case, a hand that won't call/raise vs our raise) into the field? I think we can not worry about the fish being in the pot and raise v1 here. I think we can raise and play a big pot vs v1.

It is a tough call, by just flatting there is another player to act, and v2. So we could likely see a turn with 4 players potentially. With that said, I still don't think flatting is horrible.

Its a tough call. Sometimes I flat this sometimes I raise. Mostly raise.
2/5NL deep - flop middle, get action... bet sizing? Quote
05-18-2011 , 01:48 AM
With 4 players left to act, I'm likely to make it $225-250 here. I want to play a big pot with V1. Forget about V2 with this many players behind on this wet of a board IMO.
2/5NL deep - flop middle, get action... bet sizing? Quote
05-18-2011 , 02:16 AM
My first thought is raise to $290, just under $300.

the other option is to flat and hope that someone behind raises and then come over the top. If you would flat and a bunch of players call behind, you could raise big ott if any A-4, Q or 6 falls(I wouldn't raise a 9) but you gotta be willing to get away from your hand if anything else comes off and depending on the action.

I think I'd rather pounce on the flop given the board texture and the amount of players in the hand.
2/5NL deep - flop middle, get action... bet sizing? Quote

      
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