Hero ($790, BB) - Has been pretty active recently.

Villain (covers, HJ) - Older Asian guy. He hasn't been at the table all that long, maybe 1.5 hours. I haven't seen him show down any hands, but I've seen him make lots of big bets. E.g., he raises pre then calls a 3bet OOP. Flop comes QJ9 and he check calls a 1/3 PSB. Turn bricks and checks through. River bricks and he shoves for like 1.5x pot ($450). PF raiser folds. Also, have seen him go all in in another spot where he got folds, and saw him pot a couple flops and show one card (top pair)... He has limp called a lot, and has raised pre a fair amount.



Preflop: Hero is BB with AA

Several limpers. Hero raises to $35. UTG calls. Villain calls from HJ. Flop goes 3way.

Flop (~$115):
K72

Hero bets $75. UTG folds. Villain calls.

Turn ($265):
K72A

Hero?????

Hero checks believing it's the only way to get value out of a hand I beat. Also, I'd hate to bet/fold as I'd think villain would raise shove with a flush. Villain bets $240. Hero is seriously torn between all options here (yes I'm considering folding!!!). Hero calls.

River ($745):
K72AQ

Hero checks. Villain shoves and has hero's $440 covered. Hero??? I'm getting decent odds and villain might be value-betting a worse hand, but there are so many flushes in V's range and I would think he's putting me on 2pair+ here...

bet 150 OTT

why did you check?

In my op...
Hero checks believing it's the only way to get value out of a hand I beat. Also, I'd hate to bet/fold as I'd think villain would raise shove with a flush.

Sorta a tough spot but it's mandatory be to get value from sets that flatted, KQ,KJ, (KTss?) pairs 88-QQ with a single club. you have 680 so you could just bet like 175 and potentially fold to a stuff.

If he flats the turn and the river is like 615 with 505 it is going to be a ****** really weird spot in which a c/f might be your best line.

FYI -- villain's range pre is very wide. 34s is almost definitely in his range. KTo is probably in his range, etc..

Please lead turn. Lots of hands you beat have a club now and can catch you on the river. Plus you can name your turn price, potentially paying 1/2 pot instead of paying off a full PSB to continue.

I think your call on the turn should only have been made if you think he was bluffing or he would bet a weaker hand.....stick with your read and reasoning for calling on the turn and call the river....

however next time, if your up against a guy that would put you to a tough decision on the turn....bet it...if you bet $150-$200 on the turn and he shuvs...you can be pretty damn sure he hit the flush and fold...

I would say a majority of the stronger players at 2-5 and up are willing to put you to the test and would never start telling the story that they hit the flush on the turn and then go into a shell and give up and check the river....you gotta make a read on that guy on the turn and stick with it

I would have half-potted the turn. You would have found out where you were much more cheaply, and folded out some clubs.

As played, fold. You have to ask yourself why no one is looking this guy up...maybe they know something you don't.

Unlucky card OTT though, especially since he played the flop like he was flush drawing. I say this is a fold, but in the heat of it, I will call more often than I should here.

In retrospect, I think that betting turn is probably best... At the time, I just thought there was a pretty good chance that if I bet, he'd shove and I would have to fold (while I was left wondering if he had 22 or A7 or even KxJc).

I felt like this guy is betting his entire range when I check to him. I thought it was entirely possible that he had called with a weak pair and would start bluffing once I check, something like 78s or 88 or even 24s... When I checked, I did not think I was giving something like KT with Tc a free card because I thought he would bet those hands himself.

*** However, once this guy potted the turn I definitely was giving him a lot more value hands and a lot less bluffs/semibluffs.

My other line of thinking was that if I just check/call turn, I would probably shove if the board 4-flushed on the river. There aren't too many Qx hands with Qc that he can have here (I think he's raising KQo and JQs pre), and I can easily have the Qc... I'm not saying he's always folding non-nut flushes here, but I think he folds like third or fourth nuts and lower fairly often.

I also shove river if the board pairs, and if has something like an 8-high flush, I think he has a tougher time folding on a paired board than he does if the board 4-flushes.

Anyway, that was my reasoning for the turn... But yeah I guess bet/puke-folding is probably better.

not sure if srs.

0.o

if you c/c turn folding river would be silly now call ainec

you gotta bet the turn for the hands with a single club, like KQ or KT or something.

as played, im considering a a turn fold, and folding the river. I mean, what does he have here? A slow played set? Is the set really going to shove the river instead of checking it back with flush and straights on board? Ac is basically THE scariest card in the deck. any pair of kings is checking back the turn.

The only hand I can see him playing like this is a flush, or AK. I mean, I could maybe see him betting a pair + nut flushdraw like KQc, but KQc wouldve just hit two pair, and would probably also check back the river.

I was kind of torn here. Where I came down is if the turn were 4 clubs, then c/c or c/f definitely better than betting. However, as is, I think b/f makes sense OTT. You said you would hate to fold as villain raises flushes, but you only have 20% equity to catch up, and not enough money behind. Worse hands can definitely call. I also doubt that worse hands would raise - I think 2pr calls, I think pair+FD calls (by this guy). So kind of think this was a b/f. Would have been a c/c if it was much deeper or if it was already 4-clubs.

As played, I would fold. I don't think he is value betting worse, and if he is bluffing a naked club, he gets this one, I don't think you have enough post-flop reads on this guy to bluff-catch. I think flopped sets can be discounted and 2-pr frequently checks it back.

CLIFFNOTES: When you have big hands vs aggro Villains that love to bet big and blow people off hands... then you have to call.

This is something I think many in this thread need to read again and again paying particular attention to the bolded part.

V is aggressive and seems to be in the habit of making big bets, and why the hell not when most players hate calling big bets without super premium hands....


Against an aggro villain like this, the thought of folding a set to him on a 3 to a flush board makes me want to slit my throat...

Can V have a flush? Sure, but his range is gonna be a helluva lot wider than that. This is the kinda of V who would bet the crap out of KQ hand like it was the stone cold nuts.

Against a passive V, we have to bet the turn. But against an aggro V, checking to induce a big bet is not a bad strategy by any stretch.

Unfortunately, i don't think you were checking to induce, but rather you were checking to pot control.

No, no, f---ing NO!!!!!

Now, normally when I'm going to war I'm comforted by the 12in rod of steel that is my erection threatening to burst through my jeans and tip the table over... But in this case, I'm only at half mast. I've got enough of a chubby that i'm not going to be scared.

So I'm calling the turn bet, hoping the board pairs, but will have ZERO qualms calling a river shove.

Again, THIS V ROUTINELY BETS BIG!!!

Whenever you encounter a V that is hyper aggressive then you simply have to commit to calling them down in these spots AINEC.

This type of V will turn over enough non-flush hands such that we are +EV against him in this spot.

Similarly, checking to them gives them enough rope to hang themselves. If they miss,
.

If they have a pair,


If they have two pair,


If they have a flush


add up all those scenarios and guess what??? You are ahead +EV here, so.....

So, make the call. And if he has it, meh, he has it.

I definitely *was* checking to induce. I considered betting then realized (as I said itt) that he would probably bet his entire range here, hands that are almost certain to fold if I bet again... But does it really make sense for him to pot a hand like 78s or 88 here? It's his betsizing that has me concerned, definitely not the fact that he bet - which, again, I fully expected.

Suppose I know that this guy has a flush here and will always call it off on the river if I boat up and shove. Then with implied odds, I'm actually getting the right price to check/call turn to draw to my full house. This should at least help give some merit to c/c turn c/f river...

Personally, I'm always betting a set in V's spot. It makes little sense for him to be worried about flushes and straights on this board. Yes I think he can have a set here. But I think there's a lot more combos of flushes than sets in his range.

no

come on, this board is super dry, he has one pair hands far more often than flushes here imo. when u check the turn to him, i guess he is betting all his kings with a decent flushdraw, all his flushes obviously, sets which dont need much protection on that flop and could be slowplayed, some of his pairs, maybe even some floats, etc...
personally i would bet/ fold turn, value shove river if turn goes bet/call. i mean, i love my hand here.
as played, snap him. i expect to see flushes, but far more often random pairs with a club turned into a bluff and two pair kind hands.

Results:
I call river. Villain shows up with 25 and takes it down.

The more I've thought about it, I really don't mind my turn play. I think this guy is going to bet 100% of his range in this spot. Why value bet someone who's always going to bet themselves, but might fold if you bet into them? Also, if I do bet, this is a really good spot for villain to raise shove as a bluff (I really shouldn't have any flushes in my range). Anyway, I think c/c turn is ok... The issue is his sizing. I don't see much reason for him to pot the turn here as a bluff and considering he's showing up with hands like he did, we know he has a huge number of flushes in his range. However, even if he *only* has flushes, I still don't think it's a bad call. We get a double up most of the time when the board pairs. If it doesn't pair, we can consider shoving club rivers repping a hand like KQ or AQ or QQ with Qc to fold out small flushes.

I don't believe it's correct, though, to say that just because we call the turn we have to call the river. Most villains will give up on their bluffs a lot of the time after we call a pot-sized turn bet and the board hasn't gotten any scarier. I think I lean more towards folding the river, but it's close.

Some players would value thin bet their flush unfortunately he shoved in this case. I think betting is better than hoping for him to value thin bet than shove.