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2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech 2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech

03-23-2014 , 10:41 AM
Hero: Table opened about 1.5 hours ago. I've played maybe 5 hands, won 4 of em without showdown and lost one after my double barrel in to a nit on a K 10 10 board got raised on the turn. Of the other 4, I had either 3-Bet pre or open raised and had good boards to continue firing. So... hero's image is probably nitAG

V: Black dude with headphones, seems solid from what I can tell. Seems a bit too limp happy though, normal open size is 20.

Hero covers V at 400.

Hand:
Villain in UTG
Hero AcQc in UTG + 2

Villain opens 15, hero 3! to 45 folds around V calls.

Flop 35c7c (~90)

V leads for 50 Hero raises to 150 V calls (390)

Turn 35c7cJc (holy **** I hit the flush! I'm so used to missing so I wasn't actually sure what the best play was to take the rest of his .5 pot stack.)

V checks Hero tank bets 200 (V's stack) V folds.

So my question... pot is 390, i'm in position with the nuts on a wet board when I repped strong pre and strong on the flop. V has 200 left. What is my best option to get those 40BB? His range is nearly 100% PP 66+. I figured I might get a crying call from some PP with a club, or let him level himself with a PP into thinking I have AK with a club. I thought checking behind and getting money in on the river would have less of a chance of working. And cutting it in to 2 $100 bets after raising to 150 OTT seemed ******ed. But I gave that more thought and now it doesn't seem so ******ed.

How do I have the highest probability of getting the 40BB with his range and the range I rep?
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-23-2014 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunChips
How do I have the highest probability of getting the 40BB with his range and the range I rep?
As you played it, you have zero chance of collecting the rest against a decent player. The bottom of your 3 bet pf and raise flop range is a FD and you hit it on the turn. He's got something like 88-QQ.

The more important lesson here is looking at the flop texture. For him to donk bet, his range consists of OP and to a lessor extent sets. This flop completely missed your range, other than a FD. When you raise, he's never going to fold because of the high FD content in your range. If you have no FE, it is a bad bet to make. You are betting $150 to win $240. Even if you get the free card on the turn, you didn't get paid off.
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-23-2014 , 11:39 AM
Flop bluff-raise is good.

Turn should be a small bet in the neighborhood of $95-105. No need to shove turn when SPR is so tiny.
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-23-2014 , 11:57 AM
I don't mind the turn bet. Most players will check the made flush...which is silly.

In this hand it's highly unlikely players are going to pay you off unless they have a smaller flush...since so many are afraid of flushes...but not straights - funny right?

Anyway, you maximized your value on the flop re pop so take the money and don't look back.

Sometimes hands just play themselves and you were never going to get another dime from villain whether you played this differently.
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-23-2014 , 12:11 PM
wp
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-23-2014 , 12:26 PM
Pretty sure I'm not 3b preflop here.

For one thing, why do I want to isolate a "solid" player and his UTG open raising range for 80bb?

I much rather just flat and keep my apparent range wide and see what happens. Hopefully some fish will school up with us.

As played OTF, I probably x/s the flop and expect to have 3 A outs, discount to 1 Q out and 9 flush outs. 13 outs with two cards to come is plenty good enough to stack off for 80bb in a 3b pre pot.
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-23-2014 , 01:04 PM
Lapidator:

He changed his raise size and he was UTG. So, this weights his range heavily towards 22-1010. And I felt I had a lot of options for taking this pot away if he flats. Also, of the 5 hands I played, I 3! 3 of them and the only one that I didn't take down was the one mentioned in the OP (nit had Ah10h OTB when I 3! an MP raise from CO.) I was fairly certain this would go HU.

Venice:

I realize that a large amount of my EV in this pot comes from FE, I figured this guy for the type that would (if he donked) donk his entire PP range and I could push him off most of that range. With my image, at 10-12% VPIP I figured I repped overpairs more than anything. I would think the only club hand he could put me on is AcKc. No?

ATsai:

In other situations when I rep essentially nuts and big hands like overpair + FD and their range is fairly weak is undervaluebetting the way to go? I feel like if I try to get stacks in on two streets here it looks so valuey that no sane player will call. In terms of probability (both are low, I know) what has more of a chance of getting all the BB? Hoping he levels himself into calling a 'big' bet as a bluff or hoping he levels himself into calling two smaller ones because 'the price is right'.
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-23-2014 , 01:08 PM
We can't check shove OOP. 3 bet is not manditory. As played I think you raise on the flop shows more strength than a shove. I would mind just shipping it over his donk bet with the shallow stack size. As played it wasn't bad, but you could of just bet incredibly small. Most players can't help themselves when the bet is so small relative to the pot.
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-23-2014 , 01:20 PM
wp imo. you played it optimally/ most profitably on every street. cant stack them every time!
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-23-2014 , 01:42 PM
Villain's range for donking flop and calling your flop raise is mostly mid pairs like 88-TT.

Recreational players at this level play their cards and aren't really playing versus your cards. Therefore, they will often fold turn with 88-TT to a shove because their middling hand isn't strong enough to play for stacks.

Forget about what you are "repping." Your Villain isn't even thinking about what you are "repping." He is just going to fold 88-TT a lot to a shove because his hand isn't big enough to call a shove. This is classic Level 1 thinking, and it is incorrect to assume that Villain is capable of more than Level 1 thinking until he proves it to you.

Cliff Notes: Bet small on turn against Level 1 Players (90% of your player pool)
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-23-2014 , 01:59 PM
I usually just flat pre in EP.

I think it's well played though. Maybe smaller on the turn but I think this sizing is just as good.
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-23-2014 , 02:26 PM
First of all, I think your read on him about being solid is off with the line that he took(donk/call,c/f).

If we don't think he's stacking off with 88-TT without a club, I think a check behind is the best play in a vacuum since those hands will be hard pressed to find a fold on the river if a blank rolls off, and I think 88-TT with a club stacks off on either street but they'll definitely stack off on club rivers. The only hands we would miss value from are 88-TT with a club and an A,K,Q rolls off on river.
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-23-2014 , 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PairPressure
I don't mind the turn bet. Most players will check the made flush...which is silly.
Would it be a good play here the way the hand ran out though? We have a 3 bet from hero PF, then another raise on the flop. Villain must be thinking over pair here at least. If we check behind the turn (giving impression that Hero is not happy the 3rd club came challenging his potential overpair), we might let villain either hit a lesser flush, two pair, trips on river ORRRRR just let him take a stab at a pretty big pot to rep a flush and push hero out?
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-23-2014 , 02:46 PM
I don't mind checking back and letting V catch up. What hands is V calling a 3 bet with and x/c flop and x/c a shove ott? Not many...
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-25-2014 , 02:20 PM
I'd bet something ridiculous like $50 on turn. I think $75 or more is too much and forces him to commit or fold. Fish don't hand read well but will just give you credit for a hand here
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-25-2014 , 02:21 PM
And yes raise flop here all day. Small and medium overpairs should AJ e a hard time calling plus u had tons of equity
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote
03-25-2014 , 03:03 PM
Given how little villain has behind this is one of those super rare spots where a smaller bet than the previous street is warranted. In position, checking back isn't bad either but I prefer a small turn bet.
2-5 Won the pot but still feel like I lost. Line Czech Quote

      
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