he's described as "very solid tag"

op never specified how much he's played with him so you cannot make the assumption that the sample size of hands with this player is small.

based on the read "very solid tag" we can assume he's not going to be raising over 3 limpers with A5s, 65s, or 44. the best play in this spot is generally to just limp behind, accept the gagillion : 1 implied odds you're getting, and try to hit a big hand. you have no fold equity over a standard 2/5 table. the cutoff is described as "weak passive loose" - i doubt he's folding too many hands here to the button's raise - especially when everyone else decides to come along. so that said, someone please tell me how this "solid tag" can have A5s, 65s, or 44. it is so obvious that AK/AQ/AJ of clubs is a way larger part of his range and way more likely.

Preflop, you can also make arguments for TT+ but those hands are all betting the flop when it's checked to him and he closes the action. There is even a possibility that 44 is taking a stab at this pot which makes that hand less likely.

On the turn he makes a raise for more than the size of the pot. How can some of you say with confidence that he's never bluffing when we have this read?:

Its AKcc/AQcc/AJcc and we should go all in.

I might raise this pre instead of limping if we are confident with our postflop play and there aren't too many squeeze happy or light 3-betters behind us since we are ~150bbs deep with most people.

It is a very strange spot on the turn but almost always a solid player is going to have the goods in spots where he knows he doesn't rep anything. Conversely a spewy player will often be bluffing in spots where they don't rep anything or very little. Since said player's image is solid I think this is a fold. Also lol at people thinking his range is a flush draw when he's already shown that he will bet a flopped draw. Not only that but why would he check flop with a flush draw and then raise turn when his equity drops roughly in half? He's doing this with a flush draw like never imo.

Interesting hand.

If that's his btn raise range I would say he's a nit not a TAG. Surely a thinking TAG loosens up considerably on the btn, especially given all the limpers?

On this flop he is near-always c-betting his big pairs, big draws and flopped made hands. He will be checking back his broadways that whiffed totally, some pairs <TT, etc.

His flop check back range would normally include a lot of gutshots, if you can put them in his range. If you can't, then shoving obviously becomes better as it's a decent bluff-raise spot for him (LAGtard donks, you call).

So, it's hard to know how many A5's and 65's he has, and you probably don't know if he's capable of bluff-raising turns multi-way given your small sample. I guess it helps to know your estimate of how often your LAGtard will be expected to fold to Mr TAG/nit's raise? If the table would expect him to call a lot here then I guess he somehow has it.

Tough spot.

it's more likely that if he doesn't represent anything, it's because he doesn't have anything. plus, i don't think he's taking that into account when most of the other players aren't really thinking about his range. they just see a big bet and insta-fold their one-pair.

it was 4-way on the flop with little fold equity so he probably wanted to take a free card and didn't c-bet for that reason. on the turn, one player is folded out, so he raises big as a semi-bluff to gain fold equity and because it is only 3-way now so his odds of taking down the pot are better.

I think you don't know enough about villain's range to shove. Calling has to be bad. Therefore, fold.

calling here is probably > shoving imo

ok so you really think its that much more likely that very solid reg checked behind a nutflush draw with two overs otf then decides to semi bluff the turn against an aggro fish, then somehow 3 betting hands preflop that may or may not be in his range. you go ahead and spew all in

So he's too nitty to raise a5ss, 56ss, 44 but now all of a sudden he amps up the aggression and semi bluff raises the turn?

Solid tags by nature abuse their position on the button with a wide range, don't they? Kinda confusing reads

this exactly

I think that when we limp call pre with this hand we're going to be check/folding a lot of flops and dumping the 6bbs we called pre or taking a RIO pounding on other flops. I think those losses from entering the pot without initiative will not make up for the times we play bingo, hit the flop (20% draws, %5 2p+ like you said), and extract value.

Either way, it is not cut and dry that a limp/call pre here is an ok move EV-wise (or even that raising is an ok move EV-wise) so I found it odd that there was basically no discussion of the preflop play here.

if you are limp/calling and shoveling money in with TPNK then yes, you are doing it wrong

I'd probably limp/fold PF with only 1 other caller in the pot

not raising A5s/65s/44 into a bunch of limpers isn't being "nitty". how often do you expect to get a standard 1/2 player to fold to your raise? if you're raising those hands knowing that you're going to get a bunch of callers, then you're doing it wrong. you're just decreasing your implied odds and risking more money when the reward is going to be pretty much the same when you hit your hand.

he has bluffed his draws before for three streets, so he is able to "amp up the aggression and semi bluff raise the turn". as to why he didn't bet the flop, its most likely because taking the free card there isn't awful. you're unlikely to get 3 other players to fold with a bet since a standard 1/2 player is calling with any pocket pair, any 10, even 2nd/3rd pair, and any draw. what better hands are you folding out and what worse hands are calling?

Not a huge deal but this is 2/5 not 1/2. I'm not sure what you're talking about what better hands are folding, what worse hands are calling. We don't know his hand? Solid tags don't give a **** about limping in to keep implied odds high, they're tags bc they abuse the button w a wide range.

solid players aren't abusing their button without any fold equity. i don't think you even know what "abusing the button" really is and why it's done.

obviously we don't know his hand, if you don't know what i'm talking about when i say "what worse hands are calling and what worse hands are folding?" then lol go read some COTWs