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2/5 Are We ever folding here? 2/5 Are We ever folding here?

05-21-2012 , 01:47 PM
PF is fine. Are posters seriously advocating folding Axss when the entire table is playing the hand? This is a snap call PF in my book. I'll never be convinced otherwise, sorry

OTF I think we should be folding. This isn't a heads up pot-- flopping bottom pair in a 7-way pot is pretty weak. Would you call with a gutshot here? IMO we have a 5 out draw OTF. I fold.

As played, I wouldn't donk bet the turn. We're so rarely getting called by worse, unless villain has Ax. And if villain has Ax, he will bet the turn for us; then we shove AI.

As played, obviously we are never folding to turn raise.
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05-21-2012 , 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wWizardG
PF is fine. Are posters seriously advocating folding Axss when the entire table is playing the hand? This is a snap call PF in my book. I'll never be convinced otherwise, sorry

OTF I think we should be folding. This isn't a heads up pot-- flopping bottom pair in a 7-way pot is pretty weak. Would you call with a gutshot here? IMO we have a 5 out draw OTF. I fold.

As played, I wouldn't donk bet the turn. We're so rarely getting called by worse, unless villain has Ax. And if villain has Ax, he will bet the turn for us; then we shove AI.

As played, obviously we are never folding to turn raise.
so u think villain folds all draws and Kx on the Ax turn?
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05-21-2012 , 02:53 PM
Villan is probably titling get it in ott
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05-21-2012 , 03:30 PM
You were bluff-catching OTF, then back into 2-pair OTT and plan on bet-folding the best card in the deck? Once V makes this raise he is never folding given ES, so shove imo.
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05-21-2012 , 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
No, we are never folding, but against this kind of V I prefer to let him value-town himself, rather than donking turn.

AP, I just flat this raise and keep his range wide and let him shove river. AK is in his range here, but so are any TPGK hands, imo.
V range is pretty obv AT+, seeing as LLSNL Villains don't bluffraise turn with an underpair - they go into calldown mode. We're crushing 3/4 of that, and will have to pukefold OTR if T,J,Q, or K hits OTR. So ship!
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05-21-2012 , 07:55 PM
Leading the turn here is pretty counterproductive. As played I would just ship it, but would actually never be here myself.
2/5 Are We ever folding here? Quote
05-22-2012 , 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit
Leading the turn here is pretty counterproductive. As played I would just ship it, but would actually never be here myself.
Howdy, stranger. Been a long time since you've been in these parts.
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05-22-2012 , 12:26 AM
grunch.

dude, don't lead that turn. V is going to bet that ace almost always. you should be able to check jam super profitably.

also, sounds like you are making reads too easily.
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05-22-2012 , 03:36 AM
i only call pre if i have a good handle on the table. readless i fold because i'm not going to be able to take away enough pots to play this profitably out of position when i don't have a good idea of what their bets mean.

calling flop is the worst option with raising being a close second

turn donk is silly because we have a villain that's going to barrel.

but to answer your question, no.
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05-22-2012 , 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris
As played, flat turn, then if we aren't counterfeited shove river. If we call a c/r on turn and V has AQ, AJ there is no way he's shoving river and he'll just check back. Similarly, we are never folding to a river shove, so, we have to be the one to shove river, its way too likely V checks back river
I would go with this. As described I have him on a $200 bluff on the turn with his best holding being Kx or maybe a small or medium pocket pair. So I would probably be inclined to call and then value bet the river if I'm not counter fitted. If he happens to have the unlikely A7 or AK or 77 RE-BUY!
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05-22-2012 , 01:28 PM
Preflop - never folding here closing action.

Flop - in position closing action, call. OOP, fold.

Turn - I agree with others to check to him. As played, I think this is closer to a fold than most. The V is described as crazy and aggresive, but I am a little confused as to how you have that strong of read after just sitting down. Those V make hands, too and he reps pretty strong here. Do you have a strong enough read that he is cbet betting AX otf into 5 people and then raising your turn donk when he makes top pair? Would he raise KX after you donk the turn? These are the value hands in his range that you beat. He could be semibluffing with KsXs, 7sXs, 65, or combo draw spades or spaz bluffing with air. He can also take this line with all sets, and AK, A7, K7s, K4s.

If you feel strong enough on your read, then I'd call the turn. Lead ai all rivers except a K, 7, or spade. I c/f a K or 7 river. I probably c/c a spade river, but its close to a fold.
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