Hero $1050, played a few orbits.

V1 huge sloppy looking white guy. Buys in for $500. I'm guessing a reg but not too sure. Saw in call down with a gut shot with 97 on a 1065 board. He called a raise, called turn open folded river. Probably paid 40 percent of hands since he sat down.
V1 around $750.

Folds to around to V1 BTN, who raises $15. Hero SB calls $15 with A8ss.
BB also calls.

Pot $45.

Flop J55 rainbow. Hero checks, BB checks, V1 Bets $30.

Hero thinks V1 is cbetting any flop with position and this would be a good flop to cbet from V point of view.

Hero calls
Pot $105.

Turn A. Hero checks again, V1 turn cbets $75.

Hero feels like he now has at least a bluff catcher and calls his bet.

River 2 Hero checks again hoping for a show down but V1 bets $150.

Hero?

I would have check/raised the flop personally.

As played, I don't see how you can fold, though his line does look polarized to nuts or nothing.

What were your reasons for calling pre?

I'm fine with defending A8s against a loose button open. Maybe its spewy but I'll occasionally 3bet that type of hand if I have history with certain villains. When you flat the hand out of the blinds you have to be willing to fight for pots but I think pulling a float oop will lead to tricky decisions on later streets.

I'll probably get flamed but I don't mind leading this flop against two villains. I think it's a pretty good spot to donk with merged value (Jx, 5x, pps) and stab with air to balance. You can gain initiative in the hand, setup multiple barrels and risk less compared to a check raise bluff.

I thought I had the best hand pre, although not 100 percent sure. I thought about a 3! but being he seems pretty loose, I didn't want to play a bloated pot out of position.

Ouch... This hand sure as hell went south the minute you called pre...

If you thought you were good on the turn then not much has changed.. Only AA, A5s, AJ, AQ, AK beat you..

I don't like your chances, but I would make the crying call..

As played I think you have to call for a couple reasons. First, big generalization but I've noticed most sloppily dressed 2/5 players are more than capable of running bluffs. Also he could be value betting a worse ace if he opens the suited wheel type hands. I mean worse case you gain information.

Smaller ace is a chop w/ A55 Jack kicker.

I agree with the call, but not because I think he has a smaller ace. A smaller ace is almost ALWAYS checking behind in this spot (I think!)

So your saying I should have 3! or folded pre?

Everything looks fine, call river

Fold or 3bet pre. If you think V is betting lite otb, you should raise him with a weak hand like Axs. It plays too poorly to call with oop. Folding is fine too.

I don't see the point in calling the flop unless you plan to bluff later on in the hand, which is pretty tough oop. You could c/r bluff that looks like a SB special. I'm not sure you should against a sticky opponent who may not give up with overcards or a PP. Again, I'm fine folding.

The turn/river are exactly why Ax hands suck. You do have a bluff catcher, but it's going to cost you a lot of find out. Massive RIO. He may call down with ****ty hands but that doesn't mean he triple barrels with air. I'd need to see him bluff a few times like this before I call the turn or river.

What made you think this villain is capable of triple barrel bluffing?

Also why would he barrel this way as a bluff?

Flop 30 into 45, 455 behind.
Turn 75 into 105, 380 behind.
River 150 into 255, 230 behind.

If he is capable of triple barrel bluff shouldn't he be capable of sizing it so his river bet is actually intimidating?

I'd have thought he would size so river is a shove like as if he hit trips or better:

45 into 45 on flop, 440 behind.
110 into 135 on turn, 330 behind.
330 into 355 river. 0 behind.


As it is I think villain has a better ace than you a lot here. You said yourself this is a good board for him to cbet. The river bet looks like AQ/AK, AJ or a weak 54/65 looking to get value from you being sceptical with JX or AX.

Any weaker made hands probably check back river and take the showdown. He can't really have been bluffing any draws on turn except turned gut shots and I think 150 into 255 just doesn't fold any AX. He can expect to fold your JX or TT-66 I suppose.

I can sort of see villain bluffing 150 into 255 with a turned gut shot that missed river just to fold JX and below. With 2 Aces accounted for he can have:

AK/AQ 16 combos
AJ 6 combos
65/54 16 combos
A5 4 combos
JJ 3 combos
Total value: 45

KQ/KT/QT 48 combos of bluffs

I think you're call can be +EV and will also improve your info on this villain so go for it.

IDK. Probably confirmation bias on my behalf because of the strange run out. Equally weighting fold/call/raise is probably right.

Always calling with A8s is clearly a mistake.. But always folding A8s in this spot is probably worse of a mistake.

It is just a strange hand (but, that's why you posted, right?!)

Most LLSNL players aren't betting Ax for three streets and most aren't playing 5x very fast either. We're getting 2.7-1 so I call expecting to chop sometimes and bluff catch a lot.

It's played fine BTW - defending A7ss in this spot is standard. No need to 3! as this villain probably won't fold better and may make our lives hell post.

OP, quick question - did the ace on the turn bring a back door flush draw? If so, that would bring a lot more combos into the villain's range besides the obvious broadway hands.

Think you played the hand fine. The V sounds stationy, so 3b pre bloats the pot oop. Keeping your range wide is optimal in this spot, imo.

River - call getting good odds with only a few better aces beating you, besides the nutty hands. Hard to flop trips (and FH).

Fold pre or 3bet from sb, call pre from bb. Your hand strength goes way down oop to 2 players.

As played, with no information about his bluffing or betting tendencies, everyone is just guessing. There is no right answer. This is the kind of spot that results from not having a plan. I can construct two completely different ranges for him that could both be right where one is a snap call and one is a snap fold. You are playing a marginal hand from the position of least information with no initiative against a player on who we have no information for this spot.

With no information, we need something else to be profitable like a strong hand or fold equity, otherwise your just another guy who sees a suited ace and tries to flop big.

V sounds like LP donk calling station. 3! or fold pre. I know it's nitty, but I would fold pre until I have a better idea of what this guy's button tendencies are. Playing from the SB sucks. We have terrible position and we are going to be clicking buttons/guessing for the rest of the hand.

As played, calling and hating it.

No, complete rainbow. No backdoor flush draws