For both hands, the table overall was loose passive; as a whole almost no 3 betting/squeezing. I'd say about 2/3ish pots were limped pre. Hero probably has a TAG image in both hands.

Hand one: 2/5, 9 handed, $600 effective. Villain seems like a competent loose end of TAG.

OTTH

Villain opens $20 +1, tight passive calls +2, hero has K J in LJ. Hero? What range do you 3 bet with here? What range do you flat with, if any?


Hand Two:
2/5, 9 handed, $700 effective. Villain has only been at the table around an hour, but appears to be more aggressive, and 3 betting light most likely.

OTTH

Hero opens HJ $20 with J J, villain 3 bets BTN $75, and it's folded to hero. Hero? What hands are you 4 betting with? What hands are you flatting?

H1: I’m curious what others say, I’m not sure. It’s pretty marginal either way. A lot of it comes down to game flow, perceived edge, etc. I wouldn’t usually 3 bet it. I would 3 bet KQs pretty frequently.

H2: In theory it’s a 4 bet, but unless he’s very good, I feel like people often play better against a 4 bet than a flat. It’s easy to play decently against a 4 bet, playing post flop is much harder and more complex. That being said, if we never 4 bet him, it incentivizes him to keep attacking us light which is problematic.

So I like mostly flatting, sometimes 4 betting, but you can’t go wrong either way.

H1: not loving it since V opened from +1 but I’m still making it $90-110 vs this guy. I’d be surprised if anyone is able to give you a good answer for the range as it depends on so many factors. only flatting small/mid pairs at this stack depth. If we were a little deeper I think we can call sc’s as well.

H2: shoving here HJ vs. BTN vs this guy. Flatting if we opened in EP. I like a flat in this particular configuration if we were deeper.

Hand 1: I would call and never 3bet KJ in this position. It's hard to play post in a 3bet pot.

Hand 2: I think a case can be made for both 4betting and flatting, but I would lean towards 4betting. JJ will be tough to play OOP against an aggro player- you want to punish his wide 3bet range and hope to take it down pre.

Hand 1- 100/f can have some kind of ratio with 3b/flat. Maybe 75/25

Hand 2- 215/c. prolly flatting 1k+ stacks

hand 1 : LJ vs +1, I only 3B or fold. Esp. this kind of table where call will yield either a 4-5 way pot with ugly position or a gross squeeze from blinds. If I call, I can only play the nuts postflop - no good. I flat nothing. So 3B range is player dependent but roughly 9%: 99+, ATs+, A5s, A4s, KTs+, AQo, sometimes KQo, 65s, 88, QJs, A8s. Occasionnally: 54s, 76s, 87s, A9s.

hand 2: some live players are really really bad in 3B pots. So against those I never have a 4B range. If I have a 4B range, JJ is in it at 50%; QQ+ is 100%, AK 100%, then mixed on a few not many Axs and broadway suited. I flat the other pairs, the other broadway suited, all suited connectors (except 98s), A8s+, A4s, (4B A5s). Flat AQo. If the guy is really 3betting light, then I must have a 4B range.

You have good points here, however i think the flat option is better if we were deeper. Like when we play deep (200 blinds+), its more important to not have a faceup range and being hard to put on hands. With the read that villain is most likely capable of 3 betting light and us being OOP i am weighted towards a 4 bet here.

In my opinion we should start developing a 4 bet range against this guy, and JJ fits into that range in this spot.

Thanks for the responses. Thank you to Pierrecan for actually giving a range of hands. Your ranges look solid in general. I think I prefer in hand one swapping QJs in for KTs. Is that weird? Also, in the 4 betting range - I don't wanna be calling a 3 bet, especially oop with AQo. I feel like that's one of the better hands to 4 bet?

Areevaderchi - calling a 5 bet jam with JJ seems like suicide.

How wide is your 4 bet range? I was thinking JJ, AQo+. Is that too narrow?

I certainly will start out with something like JJ+ and AQ+ against a guy that i suspect is 3 betting too much or at least wider than the vast majority of the population. Then i go from there as i get more information and develope a dynamic with villain during the game.

H1: For a typical +1 open, I’d have a tighter 3b range: KQs+/JJ+ and A5s/A4s at a lower freq. Calling scs 87s+/AXs/pps/some suited broadway 1-gappers.

H2: I’d 4b/fold $260ish to a lighter 3b range OOP. Calling 55+/JTs+/AXs.

hand 1 given desc of V and the caller after him I'm folding

hand 2 I'm 4-betting

Is it really worth calling with suited connectors when there are likely going to be callers from later positions ?

I agree with sabloid, I don't see why we would be flatting suited connectors in hand one.

Anyways, thank you for the responses. Hand one I squeezed to $80 and everyone folded - it seems like the play was pretty borderline, but probably not bad. Hand two I 4 bet to $250 and he folded; it would've been interesting had he called, because I'm not very experienced in 4 bet pots OOP. I assume we'd do a lot of jamming flops with one over, and x-f flops with two overs considering a .9 SPR?

Good point given the configuration.

Reason I would make the exception here is the table dynamic, which increases the IO. Additionally, while being OOP is still a disadvantage, it is relatively easier to play vs loose passives.

What are you doing H2 if he calls the 4 bet and one over flops?

that’s why I would personally shove pre.

there’s a % of the time you’ll fold out QQs, AK and a % of the time where you’ll get called by 99s-10s, AQ. (we can never really know vs. an unknown)

but you’ll definitely pick up all the dead money uncontested vs the weaker parts of his range. also makes you tougher to play against and it’s unlikely people will try to isolate you IP for at least a few orbits so you gain relative position at the table for a while even in the HJ

Hand 1- 80 a tad small. Need more fold equity and less odds for them to flat pre and go 3 ways.

Hand 2- 250 a tad big. You want it to seem like you have some fe or you're making a move. Being worries about flood shouldn't be a reason for sizing pre. Pretty much all in on majority of flops.

I would bet small, 1/3 PSB or so. If called, likely done.

I don't like using downbetting because it induces spazzes. Bart Hanson agrees.

Interesting … CLP is where I initially listened to discussion on the topic. Eventually implemented it in my game. Spaz is good when at the top of your range.

sixsevenoff, why are you opposed to shoving here pre? maybe I can learn something from ya

considering live open and 3! sizings you’re really shallow to start the hand

We'll never get action from a hand we're ahead of, except maybe AK, and I don't wanna use that sizing when I have AA/KK and I use that sizing for my whole range - JJ just happens to be near the bottom

sixsevenoff that’s fair, but, I think you’re underestimating the value of picking up 20 BBs uncontested. Particularly with AA, we can opt for a $220 sizing, exploitatively, although it’s not necessary, and I wouldn’t.

These are very marginal spots usually and playing a 4! pot OOP vs a narrow range isn’t as profitable, imo, as you may think.

Even a hand like A5s has 32% vs. JJs. It’d be a very +EV if he found a fold with not only the parts of his range that he was getting frisky with, as he would to a $250 sizing, but 32 combos of AQ, AK that we’re flipping with or 6 combos of QQs that we’re crushed by.

also keep in mind, Jack-Jack, is the bottom of our range. So if we shove JJs+, AK+ we’re doing perfectly fine vs his continuing range. also don’t forget that KKs, QQs are similarly vulnerable OOP vs. villains range if we were to opt for a smaller sizing to see a flop more frequently vs a potentially weaker range than ours. Same applies to your 16 combos of AK that are way more profitable as a jam pre in comparison to OOP with a low SPR.

not saying it’s the only move here but just trying to offer up a different perspective. $95 or 19 BBs is nothing to sneeze at. not for you of course, but 90-95% of people probably wouldn’t make that on average, in 10+ hours of play.