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2/5 Turned Bottom Boat 2/5 Turned Bottom Boat

08-27-2014 , 03:37 AM
Hero starts this hand with about $485. Hero is young TAG. V1 is a giant station fish with no post flop skills. Just won a big pot, and he covers. V2 is the same description.

Preflop:
V2 (UTG) limps for 5
MP1 limps
V1 (HJ) raises to $20. Folded around to hero on the button with 55. Hero flats the $20, as do the other limpers.
Pot is $87 with four ways to the flop.

Flop comes AQA.
Gets checked around to original raiser, and he checks.
Hero checks behind, basically done with the hand.
Turn comes a 5.
Board is AQA5.
V2 bets $45. Folded around to V1, who raises to $145. Pot is now $277.

Hero??

In my thought process there are merits to flatting:

1. We might be able to find a fold if another face card comes and V shoves.
2. We can sacrifice a street to raise and still get the money in, WITHOUT possibly pushing V off a semi-weak A. (Although it's unlikely V is capable of folding any A)

Merits to shoving:
1. We get more money in the pot while we are probably ahead.
2. If a scare card like a diamond or a face that doesn't fill V up comes on the river, it may cause him to find a fold.

Which do you prefer here and why? Also, do you have an alternative line to possibly suggest? Maybe a click back? Thoughts?

Last edited by SolutionReigns; 08-27-2014 at 03:46 AM.
2/5 Turned Bottom Boat Quote
08-27-2014 , 07:17 AM
Definitely prefer the shove because of the very 2 merits you list (esp #2). I don't like your merit to calling #1: dude you turned a boat and you are looking for reasons to be able to fold later in the hand!?!

Is AQ even in V2's range (wouldn't he have likely raise preflop)? There are too many AK, AJ,A10 straight-flush draws, in both of these guys ranges to even be thinking about getting away from your hand. Instead, imho you need to be thinking about maximizing the money that goes in, and if you are beat, then it's a cooler and you move on.
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08-27-2014 , 08:00 AM
if they are as stationy as you say, neither one will fold any sort of A (which V1 almost for sure has and V2 might as well). I would ship the turn, I think any smaller raise size will look stronger than an allin to most non thinking villains.
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08-27-2014 , 09:15 AM
I'm flat calling here expecting to ship any river.

Reason(s):

1) Bankroll equipped.
2) 3 way pot I'm looking at V1 with Ax and V2 with Ax/FD.
3) Typically flatting here opens possibility of V2 shove. I've already committed with flatting ott and calling all jams.
Thoughts?
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08-27-2014 , 10:02 AM
I think it's safe to GII here, none of them are folding their Ax, and the stations will be "priced in" to call.
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08-27-2014 , 11:56 AM
Deleted post. Thought hero was in blinds. On button, just get it in.
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08-27-2014 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey913
Definitely prefer the shove because of the very 2 merits you list (esp #2). I don't like your merit to calling #1: dude you turned a boat and you are looking for reasons to be able to fold later in the hand!?!

Is AQ even in V2's range (wouldn't he have likely raise preflop)? There are too many AK, AJ,A10 straight-flush draws, in both of these guys ranges to even be thinking about getting away from your hand. Instead, imho you need to be thinking about maximizing the money that goes in, and if you are beat, then it's a cooler and you move on.
I don't like it either, but that's the beauty of live poker. If I were to get some sick read on him as he excitedly throws his chips in as a K rolls off a fold might be correct.
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08-27-2014 , 07:17 PM
If you think V2 can really never fold an A after you shove (which will look insanely strong) then just get it in now. Otherwise flat, the main benefit of flatting is the potential of inducing a shove from V2.
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