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2/5 turn spot fold or ship? 2/5 turn spot fold or ship?

12-11-2013 , 10:28 PM
2/5 with $300 capped buy-in

I have played with villain a few times. 70ish year-old retired rich guy who is a reg at the casino. He likes to show bluffs, and his bets seem to be polarized to strong, near-nut hands and air. He has different gears depending on the day. I've seen him iso 67o to $35 otb and c-bet the AKQr flop HU and show after taking it down on a gambly day. I've also seen him be the 5th limper with AKo, so he has a bit of a weird style.

I can recall one hand where he potted the turn before. Usually his bets are smaller. Here's that hand:

Hero ($500)
Villain ($235)

Villian limps
Hero in MP raises to $25 with 9c9s
Villain calls

pot (57-5)
Flop: Kc3c4c

Villain leads $50
Hero tanks for 30 secs and calls

Pot ($152)
Turn: Jh

Villain ships $160
Hero tank-folds and Villain shows Ad6h


On to the hand in question:

This is literally villain's first hand (he threw my BB back at me and says he came to play). His buddy told me that he came in in the morning and sat in a tough 4-handed 5-10 game and lost. I don't know how much, or in what fashion but I'm assuming he's somewhat tilty, and definitely looking to gamble.

Villain #2 is a guy I'd never seen before. 45-50yr old white guy with a Titleist hat. Bought in full (although in this $300 game that doesn't tell you as much) and seems comfortable at the table. Looks like a typical "Joe Poker" type guy. This is his first orbit.

Hero UTG: ($300)
Villain 1 BB: ($300)
Villain 2 BTN: ($300)

Hero limps 9c9s utg
Btn makes it $15
BB calls $15
Hero calls $15

Pot ($47-5)
Flop: 2d5h7s

Villain leads $35
Hero calls relatively quickly
Btn folds

Pot ($112)
Turn: Kc

Villain bets $120. Hero has $250 left. What to do?

I know I could've played pre and flop differently. Feel free to berate for those decisions if you feel I butchered the hand. Thanks for any feedback.
2/5 turn spot fold or ship? Quote
12-11-2013 , 10:33 PM
If he likes to bluff then a king on the turn is a good card to double-barrel.
Only other info I'd want to make this decision is how he plays value hands.
2/5 turn spot fold or ship? Quote
12-11-2013 , 10:36 PM
why is this a shove or a fold? i think a call is fine. if he is someone who likes to barrel then in a sense we are trapping him here. if we shove we are only getting called when we are beat and only getting folds from hands we want to call. i think a call is fine and probably the correct play.
2/5 turn spot fold or ship? Quote
12-11-2013 , 10:38 PM
Who cares it's 300, you're prob good here a big percentage of the time... You already misplayed folding the nines in the last hand you played with him
2/5 turn spot fold or ship? Quote
12-11-2013 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVcardshark
why is this a shove or a fold? i think a call is fine. if he is someone who likes to barrel then in a sense we are trapping him here. if we shove we are only getting called when we are beat and only getting folds from hands we want to call. i think a call is fine and probably the correct play.
Good point. I'm not sure if he would fire his last $130 into $340 otr on a bluff (he might though), but he might call it off with A3o or whatever weird draw he could have ott. I could call and fold a river shove using this rationale, but it seems kind of gross. Also, it hadn't occurred to me at the time.
2/5 turn spot fold or ship? Quote
12-11-2013 , 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAG-NIT
If he likes to bluff then a king on the turn is a good card to double-barrel.
Only other info I'd want to make this decision is how he plays value hands.
I'm not sure, but I don't think he plays 7x like this. It's most likely K7, K5, 75, sets, 46, Ax gutters and random bluffs. I think he would bet smaller with 7x and Kx, but I'm not sure about that.
2/5 turn spot fold or ship? Quote
12-15-2013 , 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slothmancometh

I can recall one hand where he potted the turn before. Usually his bets are smaller. Here's that hand:

Hero ($500)
Villain ($235)

Villian limps
Hero in MP raises to $25 with 9c9s
Villain calls

pot (57-5)
Flop: Kc3c4c

Villain leads $50
Hero tanks for 30 secs and calls

Pot ($152)
Turn: Jh

Villain ships $160
Hero tank-folds and Villain shows Ad6h
Thinking about this hand, I wonder what motivates Villains to "pot" a turn. In most cases, they do so to "protect"; this is generally a fishy line. Here, your Villain is not a fish, insofar as he seems to be aware of his "perceived image". Importantly, there is also an important difference in board texture, between this hand and the previous one where Villain bluffed, with the bluff hand being a monotone board. He can rep a small flush or set and knows Hero can only really call with AKx on this type of board, so long as Hero's not in bluff-catching mode.

Now, I suspect, he does expect you to be bluff-catching on this 257r, although on this occasion Hero has limped preflop. If Villain is thinking (rather than just tilting, which is possible), then Hero's quick call on the flop would seem to be a mid overpair, maybe A5s or 78. So, yes, a K is a good bluff card for Villain on the turn. But Villain has already taken this line previously. It worked once, so will it work again? And yet Villain does have the ability to balance his bluffs with value, right (I mean why else show your air, unless you're just in need of an ego boost?).

If you choose to proceed, then I prefer c/c and c/c river over a c/shove turn. On the river you'll be calling $130 to win just under $500, so you're certainly entitled to bluff-catch here. But, once again, remember the different board textures, and perhaps make a genuine assessment of the extent of Villain's tilt.
2/5 turn spot fold or ship? Quote
12-15-2013 , 06:14 AM
I don't know if we can call on the turn. Almost half of the deck will give you a river higher than a 9, and more cards to connect the flop cards into a possible straight. If he proceeds with the line we are predicting of him, can you imagine calling off your stack with a 3rd pair?

One thing to notice, and I don't know if you do: in your previous hand history with V, his bluff made sense because of the board texture. This time the board is pretty dry, what does he think that he's getting you to fold?

And, against a player who's capable of triple barreling with air, I think you want to raise the flop here.
2/5 turn spot fold or ship? Quote
12-15-2013 , 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball2
I don't know if we can call on the turn. Almost half of the deck will give you a river higher than a 9, and more cards to connect the flop cards into a possible straight. If he proceeds with the line we are predicting of him, can you imagine calling off your stack with a 3rd pair?

One thing to notice, and I don't know if you do: in your previous hand history with V, his bluff made sense because of the board texture. This time the board is pretty dry, what does he think that he's getting you to fold?

And, against a player who's capable of triple barreling with air, I think you want to raise the flop here.
Yes, if I make the decision to call the turn I am calling off on the river. If he isn't bluffing this time, good for him. Rebuy and get him next time.

It's 60 BBs effective. Against a bluffer, I'm calling.
2/5 turn spot fold or ship? Quote

      
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