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2/5: Three Streets vs Pot Control with AA on paired board? 2/5: Three Streets vs Pot Control with AA on paired board?

03-06-2015 , 10:17 AM
Hero has just arrived at very soft-looking table, $500 effective. People at the table don't know hero but he looks like a reg/grinder (mid 20s, hoodie, shuffling chips compulsively). Utg and Utg+1 both limp, hero makes it 30 with AdAh, both limpers calls. Three way to flop. Utg+1 (villain) is in his mid 40s and looks like a recreational player from out of town.

Flop T66ss

Checked to hero who C-bets 55, utg folds and villain calls. Here is my question: When board bricks out & checked to us on each street, are we going for 3 streets of value and setting up river shove? Or are we checking a street for pot control because of the paired board?

Assume no live reads on villain throughout the hand.
2/5: Three Streets vs Pot Control with AA on paired board? Quote
03-06-2015 , 10:26 AM
Definitely going for 2 unless the turn is a 10.

River is either a cc to catch spade bluffs or going for 3 for value against 10x.

Edit: were ip so definitely going for 3

Probably folding if raised at any point
2/5: Three Streets vs Pot Control with AA on paired board? Quote
03-06-2015 , 11:50 AM
I think you can consider AA on T66 with only ~5 times the pot in stacks to be pretty much nutted, provided that a spade or a ten doesn't roll off. You should bet every street and most likely not fold to a raise, considering TT is pretty likely to raise preflop, you don't block the NFD, and depending on the suit of the 6, you block most or all of the A6s combos.
2/5: Three Streets vs Pot Control with AA on paired board? Quote
03-06-2015 , 01:39 PM
bet
bet
bet
2/5: Three Streets vs Pot Control with AA on paired board? Quote
03-06-2015 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555
I think you can consider AA on T66 with only ~5 times the pot in stacks to be pretty much nutted, provided that a spade or a ten doesn't roll off. You should bet every street and most likely not fold to a raise, considering TT is pretty likely to raise preflop, you don't block the NFD, and depending on the suit of the 6, you block most or all of the A6s combos.
Question regarding flop raises (which tend to have the widest range):

Assume villain has flush draws, 6x, and a few 78/89 with bdfd.

When you say don't fold, do you prefer calling and calling down clean runouts? Calling and jamming over a turn lead on clean turns? Or do you 3bet/fold 3bet/gii? What factors determine what you do (if you take different lines vs. different villains)

I have the tendency to mostly call and depending on SPR call down clean runouts or jam over turn if SPR is low enough and I'm committing. But I find calling down is getting me owned a lot in spots where villain (correctly) doesn't bluff bad turns/shuts down on river and/or villain gets there and we pretty much opened the door for him to (if he checks when he misses and he bets when he gets there). Also 78/89 may turn a and fold us off the best hand.

Been watching a lot of Matt Janda vids and he talks about how important it is to fold out equity, or at the very least charge it the max, even in situations where we know we have the best hand.

Thoughts? Also how does position impact your decisions? (I much prefer calling down ip obviously)
2/5: Three Streets vs Pot Control with AA on paired board? Quote
03-06-2015 , 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gangip
bet
bet
bet
.
2/5: Three Streets vs Pot Control with AA on paired board? Quote
03-06-2015 , 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gangip
bet
bet
bet
This and it's not even remotely close
2/5: Three Streets vs Pot Control with AA on paired board? Quote
03-06-2015 , 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
Question regarding flop raises (which tend to have the widest range):

Assume villain has flush draws, 6x, and a few 78/89 with bdfd.

When you say don't fold, do you prefer calling and calling down clean runouts? Calling and jamming over a turn lead on clean turns? Or do you 3bet/fold 3bet/gii? What factors determine what you do (if you take different lines vs. different villains)

I have the tendency to mostly call and depending on SPR call down clean runouts or jam over turn if SPR is low enough and I'm committing. But I find calling down is getting me owned a lot in spots where villain (correctly) doesn't bluff bad turns/shuts down on river and/or villain gets there and we pretty much opened the door for him to (if he checks when he misses and he bets when he gets there). Also 78/89 may turn a and fold us off the best hand.

Been watching a lot of Matt Janda vids and he talks about how important it is to fold out equity, or at the very least charge it the max, even in situations where we know we have the best hand.

Thoughts? Also how does position impact your decisions? (I much prefer calling down ip obviously)
It's a fairly complex calculation. It depends on how much of his range you believe consists of flush draws, and how correctly you're able to fold when the flush draw completes. If he's balancing his betting range on flush completing cards even a little, then this hurts you quite a bit even if you're completely correct in folding.

It also depends on how much you give up by not jamming flop. AA gives up more because it pushes a 65/35 edge by fastplaying, whereas KK/QQ would often only be flipping. KK thus has a lot more incentive to try to get a non-flush non-ace turn.
2/5: Three Streets vs Pot Control with AA on paired board? Quote
03-07-2015 , 01:32 AM
B/F every street IP.
2/5: Three Streets vs Pot Control with AA on paired board? Quote
03-07-2015 , 12:34 PM
You bet a little more than half pot on the flop. I like a little bigger bet here but definitely, it's a bet. And I bet turn and river, provided nothing obvious rolls off (10, spade). If V check raises, it's soul read time and probably a fold but I'm gonna tank for a while because you're very far ahead of his range and he could check raise a lot of 2 pair holdings (depending on the run out). He has no reads on you so can't automatically put you on AA, so he could get frisky with JT if a J hits, for example.
If you get any kind of read that V might check raise, you might let river go check check, but I think betting for value on all three streets is probably the best plan.
2/5: Three Streets vs Pot Control with AA on paired board? Quote
03-07-2015 , 07:18 PM
In most 2/5 games, you aren't going to get three streets of value. Unless the villain has JJ, he's not going to l/c and call you down with something that you beat. He'll fold the river finally believing you have an overpair.

That said, I'm betting even if a scare card comes on that street. Most villains will tell you when you're beat.
2/5: Three Streets vs Pot Control with AA on paired board? Quote
03-07-2015 , 07:38 PM
3 streets all day
2/5: Three Streets vs Pot Control with AA on paired board? Quote
03-08-2015 , 12:36 AM
Thanks, seems to be a consensus that 3 streets > pot control in this situation.
Are we playing the hand the same way if stacks are 1k rather than 500?
2/5: Three Streets vs Pot Control with AA on paired board? Quote

      
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