Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
2/5 - strong flush on paired board vs tricky line 2/5 - strong flush on paired board vs tricky line

03-20-2023 , 01:21 PM
2/5 - 1.5k eff. Main villain (utg) is young and seems capable, but have only seen value shown down. Somewhat loose pre.

Utg opens 15, I call CO QJ. bb calls pot ~40 (minus rake). Could be a 3bet sometimes vs his looser opening range, but decide to flat here.

Flop K74, BB and UTG check, I bet 25, BB folds, UTG raises to 80, I call pot 200.

Turn 3 he bets 80, I call pot 360.
I think it’s ok to call and keep bluffs in, and also balance with non flushing hands that would also just call, but probably better to just start piling money in giving stack depth.

River K he bets 375. Hero? I have results and villains hand to post later.

When he polarizes here I don’t think lower flushes are in that range so he’s mostly repping boats, maybe nut flush, or air at this point. I feel like it would actually be better to call down with a K or 7 in my hand vs a flush - I can have 7X combos and Kx that continue vs flop checkraise. He also has all flopped sets in range.

All that being said I’m basically at the top of my range aside from exactly 77 and 44 (I’m not vpiping K7 or K4 given the action pre) so it might be a spot where I have to defend down with flushes, fold straights, sometimes call with trips or a 7 blocker?
2/5 - strong flush on paired board vs tricky line Quote
03-20-2023 , 01:35 PM
I don’t really see any option here except call. Raise is overplaying and fold seems a tad too disgusting.

I mean, what’s his UTG opening range? Certainly AK including AcKx, KK, ATcc, KQs, what else?

AcKx or KK seem most likely.
2/5 - strong flush on paired board vs tricky line Quote
03-20-2023 , 01:46 PM
He has 77 and 44 for sure. Maybe a very rare K7 or K4, but not very likely. It’s just such a polarizing line.

I don’t think he has a K as played, the river pot sizing just doesn’t make sense, it would be turning his trip K into a bluff.
2/5 - strong flush on paired board vs tricky line Quote
03-20-2023 , 01:52 PM
His opening range UTG included AQc, AJc, maybe ATc, so he has all the nut flush draws in his range here but would he c/r a FD, or would he more likely c/r kings? Probably kings, especially after he raises only 3x which most players would call anyway (not looking like he's tryna fold ppl out).

I hate calling the c/r otf though tbh (without the nut draw, so we're not drawing dead for stacks). When he bets pot otr, he knows we called a raise otf so we can easily have a flush. If this isn't quads it looks like a NF and if it's not that it's a suited king that filled up.
2/5 - strong flush on paired board vs tricky line Quote
03-20-2023 , 02:01 PM
He could have AcKx or similar, but people so rarely over-bluff the river. It's almost always nutted. Without knowing he will bluff here, I sigh fold.
2/5 - strong flush on paired board vs tricky line Quote
03-20-2023 , 02:09 PM
Pre: Call is fine. Even if he is loose, an UTG open should warrant a little extra caution.

Flop: When the PFR is sandwiched and checks the flop, they are usually looking to pot control (88-QQ, possibly weak Ks) or c/r (KQ+, NFDs, combo draws). Against that range, I prefer checking back to fully realize our equity for cheap. While it's true that checking flop caps our hand strength, we would still be repping very thin if we bet (77 and 44). We can't have KK or AK most of the time. And so if the player is capable, he can relentlessly c/r us. AP, the value V has is KK, KJ+, AA, 77, 44. Bluffs V might have are AcX, 67s, 57s 87s, 45s and all FDs. We just call.

Turn: Flush card completes and V bets same amount as the flop. I would expect V to size up on the turn most of the time. This feels like a blocker bet that is not a flush. V wants to get to the river for cheap but still wants some value when he is ahead or doesn't want to give up the betting lead. I would raise here to get more money in while we are most likely ahead. These types of players do not hero fold 2pr+, so we can raise big and just target his made hands. I'm ok with folding out the bluffs as we are not going to win a big pot against them. $320.

River: At this point, H's hand looks like Kx. V can still have all those bluffs and value hands. This is just a coin flip now whether you want to call or not. When that is the case I usually pick the call option and expect to lose half the time.
2/5 - strong flush on paired board vs tricky line Quote
03-20-2023 , 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
His opening range UTG included AQc, AJc, maybe ATc
V can’t have AQcc or AJcc.
2/5 - strong flush on paired board vs tricky line Quote
03-20-2023 , 02:38 PM
Pre: fine.

I think that K high boards are decently over-cbet, so don´t expect many folds with a bet. Also, no better draw is folding, we want worse draws to stay in the hand. Prefer checking. As played, call flop, call turn, and call river now.
2/5 - strong flush on paired board vs tricky line Quote
03-20-2023 , 03:01 PM
Results:

Spoiler:
I folded, I talked with him later and he claimed 45ss, which makes sense, bottom pair with BD flush and straight draws, explains the flop c/r line. I think I’m still ok with my fold long term because he has more combos of value with nut flushes and boats. 45ss is one of the only logical bluffs. A 7x would either cbet or check call flop and he isn’t a spewing player that’d blast off and take this line with something like ATo with Ac.

If I find out he’s putting hands like Kx or weaker flushes in that river pot bet size for value, or overdoing the flop c/r line with more bluff combos, then that obviously changes things, but I’m fine with fold for now.

Last edited by omegabakon; 03-20-2023 at 03:07 PM.
2/5 - strong flush on paired board vs tricky line Quote
03-20-2023 , 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diezeljj

Turn: Flush card completes and V bets same amount as the flop. I would expect V to size up on the turn most of the time. This feels like a blocker bet that is not a flush. V wants to get to the river for cheap but still wants some value when he is ahead or doesn't want to give up the betting lead. I would raise here to get more money in while we are most likely ahead. These types of players do not hero fold 2pr+, so we can raise big and just target his made hands. I'm ok with folding out the bluffs as we are not going to win a big pot against them. $320.
This right here

The turn is the most important part of the hand IMO. Missing the turn raise is critical!!!! Villain never has a bluff on the turn b/c he bet so small. There is no hand that c/r's the flop and bets 1/4 pot that is a bluff. If he's bluffing the flop he's bombing the turn or checking the turn. If he's value raising the flop he's betting smaller on the turn to get to the river b/c he's afraid of your flush. As stated above, you need to make a big raise and put him in a tough spot with sets/AcKx

45ss? GTFOH, he's never raising UTG w/45s, he's got 77 all day
2/5 - strong flush on paired board vs tricky line Quote
03-20-2023 , 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
His opening range UTG included AQc, AJc, maybe ATc, so he has all the nut flush draws in his range here but would he c/r a FD, or would he more likely c/r kings? Probably kings, especially after he raises only 3x which most players would call anyway (not looking like he's tryna fold ppl out).

I hate calling the c/r otf though tbh (without the nut draw, so we're not drawing dead for stacks). When he bets pot otr, he knows we called a raise otf so we can easily have a flush. If this isn't quads it looks like a NF and if it's not that it's a suited king that filled up.
Nut draw, non nut draw doesn't really matter too much. Villain just isn't pulling this move w/the NFD often enough for us to be worried about being over flushed. I think we have to call the flop given the size of the FD
2/5 - strong flush on paired board vs tricky line Quote
03-20-2023 , 09:36 PM
This is the most standard call ever.

Villain xr and turn sizings don't make a lot of sense - we are way too high in range to fold.
2/5 - strong flush on paired board vs tricky line Quote
03-23-2023 , 10:13 AM
I lean towards call. Especially if it sounds like villain is capable. He is basically betting pot. Maybe it gets more tricky facing a really large overbet on the river.

I am curious about his sizing. I wonder if he really uses that sizing for boats, or maybe an even larger sizing? And what sizing would he use for flushes. Tiny overbet might be an exploitative size that is bluff heavy. Maybe not, but something to consider.
2/5 - strong flush on paired board vs tricky line Quote

      
m