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2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river 2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river

12-24-2015 , 04:42 PM
2/5 NL, buyin from $300 - $1000 max
Table is 7-handed with quite a bit of action.

Hero has $840, V1 and V2 both cover.
V1 has been pretty tight so far, not a regular. V2 is pretty new to the table and bought in for 1k... I have seen him around the room a lot but haven't really played with him. Hero's image is somewhat tight but has been card dead.

Folds to Hero on the Button with Q6 and raises to $15. V1 calls in SB, V2 reraises to $30 in BB, Hero calls, V1 calls.

Flop: 347 (Pot: $83)
V1 bets $35, V2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn 347 5 (Pot: $188)
V1 checks, V2 bets $100, Hero raises to $250, V1 folds, V2 calls pretty quickly.

River 347 5 5 (Pot: $688)
V2 snap-shoves and covers Hero's remaining $525. Hero ???

Thoughts on all streets appreciated... especially interested in the turn.

Last edited by tuds38; 12-24-2015 at 04:56 PM.
2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river Quote
12-24-2015 , 04:54 PM
Maybe its because I'm super tight but I probably fold pre.

If I do open, when a tight unknown min-raises from OOP I definitely chuck it away. But that's just me.
2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river Quote
12-24-2015 , 05:03 PM
With V1's small Cbet and V2's flat, I think flop is a good spot for a semibluff raise. You often take the pot down with Q high and if you are called you will almost always be checked to on the turn.

Turn is fine

With what you know of V2, is he likely to slowplay or fast play a set on this board 3-way?

After he calls your turn raise, he either has clubs or a set. Can't see anything else in his range. If he's gonna bluff missed clubs he would probably risk less than shoving. He perceives you as tight and prob gives you credit for a big hand OTT. He is more likely value betting a FH IMO here. Puke fold.
2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river Quote
12-24-2015 , 05:18 PM
Fold pre.
Raise flop.
Raise to 350 on turn.
Riv is tough. Rely on live read.
2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river Quote
12-24-2015 , 05:20 PM
Wow, gross.

So villain's possible sets here are 33, 44, 77, and one combo of 55. (Let's just remove 55 altogether, since I doubt he's snap-shoving quads.)

Is he really min-raising 33/44/77 from the bb? What's the logic of that action? It's a play with no fold equity that bloats the pot oop against two opponents. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I will say that it's non-standard enough that, if he's min-raising here with a small pp, he's probably taking a number of other non-standard preflop lines that should be catching our attention.

He can also be overvaluing AcAx/KcKx/QcQx. And he can be suicide-bluffing AcKc/AcJc very easily, I think. That's only two combos, but it's two combos that definitely fit the bluffing line.

Also, since he thinks you're playing tight, he probably doesn't put you on a 6. It's troubling that he isn't worried you hit your set, but it's also very possible that his thought process on the turn was as simple as "this guy doesn't have a straight. I'll bet I can bluff him on the river and he'll just fold."

It's tough, but I think it's a call. Your hand is stronger than he likely gives you credit for, and the only hands he can have that beat you are ones that don't fit his line very well.
2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river Quote
12-24-2015 , 05:35 PM
Sierra - is there any holding that you would minraise from the BB?

I don't have a min 3betting range there. I can't discount small pairs from this villain's stupid PF line.
2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river Quote
12-24-2015 , 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmanonguitar
Sierra - is there any holding that you would minraise from the BB?

I don't have a min 3betting range there. I can't discount small pairs from this villain's stupid PF line.
Yeah that's not a move that I would ever pull, I could see doing it in position or SB before any callers to try to get it heads up. Like Sierra said he can't expect me or V1 to fold... I would think AA / KK trying to build a big pot without scaring off his action are more likely than a small pp.

If he really did boat up on the river, why snap-shove? It's an intimidating move, but a boat wants action, not fear. I think my hand looks more like 88-QQ rather than a straight, so wouldn't he rather value bet or at least wait a little bit before shoving?
2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river Quote
12-24-2015 , 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmanonguitar
Sierra - is there any holding that you would minraise from the BB?

I don't have a min 3betting range there. I can't discount small pairs from this villain's stupid PF line.
Fair point. There isn't any holding that I would minraise with. The only ones I've seen a minraise with were top-5 hands, though. AA-QQ, some AKs... Stuff that the villain knows he's supposed to reraise and doesn't want to force a fold.

(One recent example: playing 1/2 6-handed, I raised preflop with J10s. Folded around to the bb who looked at his cards and checked his option. Dealer tells him its been raised, and he then minraises me instead. I call, he checks the A-10-rag flop, I check behind. Turn is a Jack, he bets half-pot, I call. River is a Queen, he checks, I check behind, and he flips over AA.)

I've never seen a villain min-3! with a small pair here. Maybe he does that with a medium pair, so I could give him 77. But there are a lot more combos of QQ-AA and AKs than there are of 77.

But yeah, we're definitely in what-the-hell-is-this-betting-line territory. You're right about that.
2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river Quote
12-24-2015 , 08:13 PM
Snap call. This is a terrible bluff attempt.

Pre is fine getting 5:1 (SB will always call) in the best position + deep stacks.

I think the flop is perfect.

Turn is perfect. Excellent sizing. I love the raise. Your straight is so hidden, and we like to see V betting the turn again and with this sizing - he has something, it's likely TT+ / flush draws; very often he's calling your raise, and you're getting huge, huge value. This is exactly what I love about the flop call. You get to make excellent decisions in the best position on the turn with perfect information on the turn card + villain's action + a better understanding of the relative strength of villain's range based on his action. A+.

What, we're supposed to think he 3-bet small pre with something that's now a boat / quads? And he bet/called the turn with something that's now a boat / quads? It's really hard to have a boat or quads.

He has AcKc exactly (soul reading, of course), now call.

And yes, I'm quite confident that we're good here. Of course, it's poker, so anything can happen I suppose.
2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river Quote
12-24-2015 , 08:53 PM
Willy while I think it's conceivable for him to have busted clubs here, I'm just not sure he'd bluff shove river given Hero's image and line.

What do you think V puts hero on when we raise turn? And how does the board pairing 5s change that perceived range?
2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river Quote
12-24-2015 , 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmanonguitar
Willy while I think it's conceivable for him to have busted clubs here, I'm just not sure he'd bluff shove river given Hero's image and line.

What do you think V puts hero on when we raise turn? And how does the board pairing 5s change that perceived range?
I mean, it's just so incredibly bluffy... the 3-bet pre + the board texture + the turn bet/call + the river open shove + all the timing tells + the run-out + the polarization + the combinatorics.

I'm calling this bet 100% of the time and expect to be good often.

I'm not sure he puts hero on anything, to be honest.

Remember, we're readless, and this villain min 3-bet oop. What's the likely thought process of someone who min 3-bets oop over a BTN raise + SB call? Well, again, we're readless, but I'll guess it's probably more about "oh ****, I missed, SHOVE!" than about range theory.
2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river Quote
12-24-2015 , 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyoman
I mean, it's just so incredibly bluffy... the 3-bet pre + the board texture + the turn bet/call + the river open shove + all the timing tells + the run-out + the polarization + the combinatorics.

I'm calling this bet 100% of the time and expect to be good often.

I'm not sure he puts hero on anything, to be honest.

Remember, we're readless, and this villain min 3-bet oop. What's the likely thought process of someone who min 3-bets oop over a BTN raise + SB call? Well, again, we're readless, but I'll guess it's probably more about "oh ****, I missed, SHOVE!" than about range theory.
I hear ya. You're probably right.

But if you are, V is really a clueless drooler.
2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river Quote
12-26-2015 , 12:59 AM
I think its a snap call..small pocket pairs cant be in his range giving he min 3bet pre oop.only hand that makes sense is Akc
2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river Quote
12-26-2015 , 07:13 PM
Nice hand

I think there are multiple lines you can take with this hand, raising flop is always going to be a solid proposition here since we have a ton of equity vs all but very few hands and we can generate enough fe + hand equity to take make lots of money. Flatting flop is fine too though. Turn raise is good too, sized well too since it leaves room to play 1 more street... i'm either going with a nice small sizing like you did (maybe 275 to get a bit closer to 3/4 pot river play), or i'm blasting it to heavily in committal range like 450 (though i'd only be using this sizing if I have a tilty or maniac image).

I don't have much to say about the river decision, this hand just starts out in such a non-standard way vs. someone who we have no information. With some villains, their pre-flop range is going to be KK/AA, others their range is going to be 22-tt, 45s-AKs. It's one of those few spots that come up live where i'd pull out the 'induce a tell' playbook and use any information like race, attire, etc. to lean me one way or the other. I don't normally like folding to snap bets this high up in my range, so with nothing else to go on i'm probably gonna call getting better than 2:1, but i'm going to be taking at least a minute on this decision doing things like counting out my chips for the call / talking to villain to try to induce a read.
2/5 - Straight with flush redraw on turn, board pairs on river Quote

      
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