Game is 2/5 with a 10 straddle. Late afternoon crowd.

Hero: young 20s TAG image. (1600)

V: older male, loose pre flop caller, TAG post flop. (covers hero)

Folds to Hero in MP who raises to 30 with KQ V calls on Hero direct left. Everyone folds.

Flop (70ish) Heads up. KQ7 Hero bets 40 V raises to 130.

What do we do? Raise or call? Obv never folding.

Will post results and/or later streets after comments.

Let's start by putting V on a range.

No 3!, you hold K & Q blockers, so I would heavily discount top or middle set. 77 is certainly in his range, as well as worse two pairs (Q7 & K7). Sprinkle in some broadway draws and you are way ahead of his range.

I would be more inclined to flat if we were in position but I think I would put in the 3rd bet on the flop here. We are pretty deep (300+ BB deep) and I want to have the option of getting all the chips in by the river.

I would 3 bet to around 400.

I would think his range is K9+,QT+,77; AT/JT unlikely and discounting QQ+, and probably almost no air.

Since he is TAG post flop, I would probably call here, and go for the c/r on the turn, assuming you think he's going to continue to bet the turn. If you think he can get married to his strong Kx hands and call off a re-raise, then sure go for the raise. But I think your normal TAG would drop most of his range to a strong re-raise here, probably only continuing with AK,KQ,77, (maybe AQ) and K7/Q7 if you include those in his pre-flop calling range.

I would call. A raise will significantly narrow the range he continues with, possibly just KQ and sets.

Do you think he is loose enough to flat your open raise with K7s or Q7s? This is pretty critical here.

So we are going to flat him OOP? Then hope he fires again to C/R him?

I think the turn will check through a good amount of the time with this line.

Preflop: I'm assuming the straddle is mandatory. The times I've personally played 5/10 and 2/5/10 have been when the game was extremely soft. I mention that because at the stakes I typically play if the largest preflop value-raise I can expect my opponents to call is 3X BB then I am at minimum on the table-change list. So if this is a tough table with a typical open-raise of 3X the mandatory straddle then this is probably not the best forum to post this hand as people who usually play 2/5 and below (like me) won't have much experience here. If it's a soft game, then ignore what I've written up to now and raise more preflop.

Flop: As played, I'd bet slightly larger, but $40 is definitely not a mistake. Once raised I'd call with the intention of leading the turn.

I'm assuming that your opponent is not so bad preflop that he would call your raise from that position with AK and QQ (obvious 3bets) as well as K7 and Q7 (obvious folds). So with his likely range of hands being top pair, JT, 77, and bluffs I don't see a postflop TAG giving a check/raise action with any hand that KQ beats. The only advantage reraising gives you is blasting out the straight draw. By calling and leading the turn you give yourself a chance to A) get value out of Kx hands, B) give bluffs and Kx hands a chance to catch a little something that will cause them to lose more (eg: Ax catches top pair or Kx makes trips or a smaller two pair), and C) give yourself a slight chance of not going broke to 77. Betting the turn is better than checking because JT checking behind is the worst possible scenario for you if your opponent holds that hand.

Hope this wasn't too wordy.

Just my opinion...

I 3 bet here to 360-400. We are playing deep stacks and we should want the option to get it all in if we wish. Calling the flop bet and checking the turn gives him the option of checking through and keep the pot small.

If we 3 bet and he calls then we have a spot where we can easily get it all in by the river. If we 3 bet and he folds then odds are we were not going to get much more value on later streets regardless.

It's not a mandatory straddle, just happens to be a straddle on this had.

Hard for villain to call a 3bet with worse. We risk isolating against KQ and 77. I flat intending to lead most turns.

If we shovel money in on the flop, it's hard to get called by worse with this much behind.

And can he have K7s and Q7s? This really might not be as good a spot as it looks.

Ok, then raise larger pre.

Why? At a 2/5 game with a random whale who straddles when its his turn and he is the only one straddling why would I raise more pre? I think 30 is the highest I would raise in this situation. Thought about raising to 20-25 tbh.

In my experience 4X will get called, and if the straddler is especially fishy he'll call more.

Also, 3x looks like a "pot builder" and is the kind of raise that good TAGs will 3bet as a bluff, especially in a straddled pot. It's hard to put TAGs on bluffs because of the "T" part, so you basically have to let them get away with it. Not sure if that applies in this situation as I don't know who is behind you.

Just my opinion...

Well I disagree because at this table every hand besides one is being played as 2/5. So for people with 300-400 stacks (which we a few) a raise to 30 they see as 6x so I am not looking to take it down pre I am looking to play flops against players who are recreational.

But I understand where you are coming from. It's tough to explain through text what the table was like.

Grunch: He should have KK/QQ here never. A because we've got blockers, and there's only 1 combo of each, and two because he would often 3bet with both of them pre flop.

So, we lose to 77. And that's it. I'm going to play this hand assuming that I've got the best hand.

Having said that, I think that we are too deep to look to stack of here.
I would flat the flop bet and donk the turn on all non Ace non 9 flops.

If he has Kx he's certainly going to call, if he has JT he's still going to call. The only thing we lose value from is pure bluffs, which I think are discounted heavily. The reason that I like donking the turn is to deny him the chance to check behind and see two free cards with his straight draws.

If he raises the turn again, I'd reeval but I would think about folding.

I would 3 bet to 340 or so for two reasons.

1. If he has k9, k7, or kq he is calling. Exposing his hand since he would never call with 77 or better.
2. If he 4 bets you can narrow his range to 77. If he 4 bet bluffs with TJ then he's a great/stupid player.

The Problem with calling the raise on the flop is you have no clue where you stand. When raising you can get a narrower range and hopefully pick up some physical tells on him that will help in reading his hand.

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Most of the time I like a call and then lead a lot of turns for 195. It keeps your range wider than if you 3! here. I'd like to still have 1 pair hands in my range in the likely situation that he flopped a hand like K7 or Q7. It sets up a bet/fold on the river for 500.

If he's a big enough fish to stack off with AK here, I'll probably put in a PSB on the turn and the river.

Disclamer: I've stated in the past that my OOP deep game isn't great. So i'd like to be in on this thread to learn a bit.

Grunch:

If Villain is a loose pre flop caller but TAG post, then he may very well have a weaker two pair and think he is good here. Other than what you gave, we don't have much info on V...is he the type that will spazz here with KJ or KT? Will he raise with JT this deep? V is probably 3 betting KK or QQ pre so the only hand that we should be concerned about is 77.

I think just a flat call here and evaluate the turn is our best play.

Raising 20-25 is absurd and quite honestly 30 is too low. Either flat call the straddle or raise more. $40-$50.

This.

This is bad because we're either way ahead or way behind. If we 3 bet Villain is folding all the Kx hands we're crushing and probably folding his draws. He probably calls with weaker two pair hands but now he's going to be on high alert and may proceed more cautiously which will cause us to lose value.

Yeah. Well you are stacked fat with 300bbs. I don't think you want to be in the scenario where you lose 300bbs to trips because you were priced in on the river. The point is to make money. Make money with little variance. Here, if you 3 bet he is calling with two pair hands that you dominate. That's great. If he folds than you took down a pot of over 200$ which is about 15% of your stack. Or you can call the raise on the flop. Pot at around 300$, you check he bets 175$ or so, you call. Now the river brings a blank and you call a 400$ value bet he makes on the river and you loose around 750$ in a pot.

I think it's better to possibly win 200$ on the flop then possibly lose 750 on the river. If you 3 bet the flop and he calls then your good. You know he has a lower two pair or draw. At that point you can either over bet the turn, c/r the turn, and most likely get a call down to the river if you play it right. Most amateurs will get it all in on the turn or river with 2 pair if they think there pot comitted.

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This is wrong on so many accounts. The fact that we are "fat stacked" IS the reason we need to flat here. You mention "making money with little variance", yet your advice is for OP to take the highest variance line.

Do you understand the concept of Way Ahead Way Behind? You never want to make an act that is so aggressive in a spot like this to where your opponent is a) folding all hands weaker than yours and b) only continuing with hands that beat you. A 3 bet here is strong and V may actually slow down or fold weaker two pairs and draws. We want to extract maximum value from these hands so taking a 3 bet line is bad. Hands that crush us are never folding.

"It is better to possibly win 200 on the flop than to possibly lose 750 on the river"- That is the wrong way to think about poker...very, very wrong.

You make a good point. I understand maximum value and all. But you have to look at both lines. 3 betting is profitable because 75% of the time he is calling with his flop raise range. And out of those hands you beat all of them. The other 25% of his range is 10 J, 77. In which you beat 10J most of the time, and 77 is obviously raising the flop most of the time as well. So the reason I raise is for max value since all of his 3 bet calling hands we beat and he will mist likely continue calling if not raising on the turn.
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flat and lets see turn. Im sure Vil is discounting KK or QQ here with smaller PF raise unless thats been ur norm.

either way if we 3bet we fold out a ton IMO, i could easily see Q7 folding. not only that if we 3bet and he flats which he could easily do with 77 then we are OOP in a bloated pot and still not sure what to do.