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2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board 2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board

03-15-2011 , 09:36 AM
2/5 8 handed

I have $475 and all relevant opponents have me covered except button who has about $200. My image is TAG, but UTG is the only opponent aware enough to notice. No reads other than ones given below are relevant.

UTG (TAG) calls, 2 folds, HJ (LAG), CO (fish), and button (fish) all call, SB folds, I check from BB with K5

Flop: 543

I check, UTG bets $20, HJ folds, CO calls, button folds, I ???

Comments on all actions welcome
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote
03-15-2011 , 09:38 AM
Fold and its not even close.
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote
03-15-2011 , 09:48 AM
One of them is on a flush draw, with like 80% certainty. The question is whether you are ahead or behind the other player. Flopped straight, set or two pair is possible, but also hands like 56, 46 (pair+open ender) and depending on how bad our fish is he could call with any pair on this board.

I feel like foldiing because I'm either way behind or slightly ahead and do not know which. Possibly reraise to 65 to find out where you are (our TAG can probably fold better hands to this strong move), but the problem is fish might come along with junk anyway and you still don't know where you are.
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote
03-15-2011 , 09:57 AM
Sounds like you know UTG a little. I know TAGs limp UTG sometimes but so many posts start with this I wonder if i completely misunderstand the term. Would you estimate his limping range as pairs 22-99 only?

Only my opinion.....
Only it is not an opinion, it's a question......
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote
03-15-2011 , 02:23 PM
who cares, it is king five and an 8bb pot and you don't have any kind of position and your money can be exchanged for goods and services so let's wait to find a better place to spend it.
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote
03-15-2011 , 04:33 PM
Thanks for the responses so far everyone. Do people agree with the original flop check or do posters prefer a bet?
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote
03-15-2011 , 04:36 PM
bet pot/fold the flop

once you've checked, check/fold
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote
03-15-2011 , 04:47 PM
I've been away from 2+2 for a few years but I'm back to work on my game diligently once again.

I'm check/folding this spot all day long. You say UTG is aware enough to notice how you're playing, so he has probably noticed the other player in the hand is a "fish". I think this skews his range here to value bets with hands that beat you almost all the time because he knows the fish is almost never folding. 66-99, sets, and straights.
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote
03-15-2011 , 05:15 PM
I'd rather b/fold personally, don't know if it's right. As played I'm folding.
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote
03-15-2011 , 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quesuerte
Sounds like you know UTG a little. I know TAGs limp UTG sometimes but so many posts start with this I wonder if i completely misunderstand the term. Would you estimate his limping range as pairs 22-99 only?

Only my opinion.....
Only it is not an opinion, it's a question......
At this table UTG would limp with hands like 88-22 and maybe some slightly higher pairs, suited connectors, suited big cards like QJs, KTs, etc and probably a few combos of unpaired high cards. I also saw him get tricky once with AK and limp UTG.

TAGs can open limp too, especially at tables where you can stack people in limped pots and raises are certain to get action.
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote
03-15-2011 , 07:13 PM
With fish in the pot I'm always flatting here. This is a good PAHWM. Turn?

One of the reasons I often heard cited for playing certain hands, especially pre, is that they are easy to play. This is clearly nonsense. I think this is an example of a hand that will be difficult but if we play well and have some idea of UTGs game is 4BB well spent.

Last edited by quesuerte; 03-15-2011 at 07:26 PM.
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote
03-16-2011 , 09:56 AM
bet flop, fold to any raise on the flop, if called c/f turn and river imo
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote
03-16-2011 , 11:27 AM
Easy fold. Only K K will make you feel good!
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote
03-16-2011 , 11:31 AM
WTF is the point of betting this flop? we are c/f the turn so much it seems like just lighting money on fire, we don't even know if we are value betting or not really. Just c/f with this big of a field
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote
03-16-2011 , 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruken
who cares, it is king five and an 8bb pot and you don't have any kind of position and your money can be exchanged for goods and services so let's wait to find a better place to spend it.
This.
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote
03-16-2011 , 01:43 PM
Im checking flop out of position, i really dont like a b/f unless the table is very passive, however we are going to be in a sticky situation on so many turns if it gets there that the value of taking a b/f line decreases due to future problems we'd encounter.

The only way i'd continue is if less people saw the flop/turn. If it were HU, i could see a way of stealing the pot on the turn or river but only if i feel i have solid enough understandings of opponent's tendencies.

Furthermore, there's no "bet to protect against draws", since so much is going to call a flop bet here so often and there's nothing to protect really (top pair 2nd best kicker in a multiway pot on a super draw heavy board).
2/5 Small top pair, good kicker, coordinated board Quote

      
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