10 handed 2/5 game at Tampa Hard Rock; soft table with only one other good, semi-pro player. Effective stacks are $600.

I limp UTG+1 with A7. We see the flop 6 handed, which is:

510J.

The blinds check, I bet $25, and two players (both of whom have under $200) in MP call. The big blind (who is the semi-pro) check-raises to $135.

The pot is now $235. I have $570 left. I assume no case will be made for just raising, so do I fold, call, or shove? Thanks.

1. I wouldn't limp here unless you have a read that you aren't going to be raised here

2. Flop, I'm fine with leading, but you can go $20 instead of $25 here.

3. The pro is setting you up to play for stacks. Do you really want to go to war here with the bare nut flush draw? Do you think he really isn't going to pound all blank turns? Do you think he's really bloating the pot OOP with air? Do you really think he's the kind of V to pay you off when you call flop and then suddenly go nuts once the flush comes? If you continue, you're basically hoping he has Q9ss or some sort of combo draw. That's your entire value range vs. giving 25% of your stack away here to chase him. You're probably facing an all-in or almost all-in on the turn. The flop was a bet/fold, IMO. He raised, now fold.

4. Good job having position on the only other good player at the table.

In a 6 way pot, I'd just check and hope to get there on the turn. Maybe call a small-ish bet. Too many players to be betting out into a dry pot with a naked FD OOP.

grunch: fold

if villain is good player i'd assume 2 things... one is that he has a made hand (he just check raised in a very multi-way pot with a bet and 2 callers already... he's not counting on a fold). and he may have very well been setting mining with 10's or J's with that many limped in when it got to him in the bb. of course in a limped pot, he wouldn't fold anything so 10-5o and j-5o are certainly in range.

i cheated here a bit and stoved that range. if my range is accurate, you have almost 33% equity.

you have to call 100 to win 130 with another two rounds of betting to come so i agree calling is not a great option here. you don't have the pots on this street let alone implied odds of more streets to come.

if you shove you need a fold from a better hand about about half the time (math check?) and i don't think he's folding. he may even be hoping for a shove.

this just screams value to me and without better pot odds i'm folding. the good part is you really haven't invested too much. the worst that will happen is you've missed potential winnings.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 32.593% 32.59% 00.00% 11616 0.00 { As7s }
Hand 1: 67.407% 67.41% 00.00% 24024 0.00 { JJ-TT, 55, JTs, J5s, T5s, JTo, J5o, T5o }

preflop is a mistake

You overestimated the number of good players at the table.

Pre is fine if its a limp fest and filled wih calling stations but I usually prefer a fold. If u have position, limping is fine. As played u can call or fold. I prefer a fold here. He's repping like j10 or set here most of the time and u may not get paid off even if u hit on turn. Plus u can't call a turn bet if u miss. Folding is the right play. I'd check call flop though. U want to keep pot small with this many people especially since ull get paid off if u hit. U have very little fold equity against this many people unless u plan to fire multiple barrels

Folding and raising to take control of the hand are probably both better than limping.

Leading out otf into a pool of players is the best idea unless your planning to barrel turn ans river most the time, but still think theres too many opponents to make this profitable. Rather check and see how the action goes.

We probably don't have the implied odds to call his c/r and I'd just let this go

Any reads on the semi-pro? Does he play loose/tight, aggresive/passive? How would he play TPGK in this spot? A combo draw like 9s8s?

In a vacuum when the semi-pro check raises from the BB, I'd put his range on JT, J5, T5, 55, and several combo spade draws. I think he raises PF with JJ or TT from the BB. With the other two players being short, he doesn't mind getting it in versus either with a combo draw. As such, I would call his c/r on the flop. A 3bet is unlikely to get a fold from his made hands except maybe bottom two and when he has a combo draw if a spade falls you know you will get his money anyways. Since you are drawing to the nuts, you don't mind either SS calling his c/r. With the two SS in, I think 3betting him is spew.

I think its close on the implied odds, but if a spade falls, I don't see him c/f bottom set or top two pair. He might c/f top and bottom or bottom two pair, but it's hard to say since you didn't give more reads on his tendencies or your image.

If he raises KQs preflop (a reasonable assumption if he'll also raise JJ and TT) he has few combo draws here, making this lean fold.

does everyone think villain would raise 10-10 and JJ pre from the big blind with 5 others already limped in? i think if it were me, i would be turning these into set mining hands from early position a good amount of the time.

He probably raises TT/JJ, but it's a limped pot, so he can have any 2 pair as well as a set.

As played, gotta fold.

I agree re: KQ but I still count 4 combo straight draws (K9, Q9, Q8, 98) and 7 of 5sXs hands for pair and FD).

Without more reads, I don't see how we can say Hero clearly doesn't have implied odds. I see people make bad calls with 2pair all the time when I think it's pretty clear their opponent has a flush. Even pros.

this is true, i wasn't counting combo draws that could certainly be played like this. i'll have to stove this again later.

it didn't change it as much as i thought. i'd still fold without a very specific read.

eequity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.115% 39.12% 00.00% 19362 0.00 { As7s }
Hand 1: 60.885% 60.88% 00.00% 30138 0.00 { JJ-TT, 55, KsQs, Ks9s, Ks8s, Ks5s, Qs9s, Qs8s, Qs5s, JTs, J5s, T5s, 9s8s, 9s5s, 8s5s, 7s6s, 6s5s, 5s4s, 5s3s, 5s2s, JTo, J5o, T5o }

Thanks for the input. To answer a few questions/comments:

1) I do play with him all the time, and he NEVER checks 10's or J's here PF.

2) As for KQs, he would be checking PF (maybe he'd raise it with just one or two limpers), but probably would have at least thought about it for a moment, and probably made a comment about how he should raise but won't, blah blah. (He's a chatty one.)

3) We were seeing a decent number of limped pots, but more importantly, he was OOP this hand, which is why I felt even more comfortable limping (he and I being the most likely players to make a raise PF). So yes, I felt I'd get to see the flop for $5 at least, say, half the time or more, especially when I started the "limpede" from EP.

Oh, to answer two more:

1) If it were heads up he might raise 89s/79s/78s/Q9s/Q8 here. (Yes, he's a bit on the laggy side, but nothing crazy.) But with this much action and OOP, I think he'd be too worried about bigger flush draws to play these aggressively, and would flat.

2) I forgot to mention something important. He can't raise KQs here. Royal flushes pay $500. He would never raise and risk folds when he's one card away.

If he doesn't have these hands in his range, you don't have a read that he'd play TPGK this aggressive, or that he'd call down if the flush hit, then I change my suggestion to a fold to his raise. You need to be able to make at least 260 and probably more like >400 to account for his redraws if the flush hits to have the proper implied odds.

most players don't semibluff (or any type of bluff) into multiple players anyway.