Into about 4 hours into the session...

Hero ($550) - solid regular TAG player (flopped a set and lost a $600 all in to a flopped straight about 30 min prior)
Villain 1 ($2100) - came from a broken table. White early 30's...seen him playing in the casino and view as a winning player. TAG but will try to see some flops cheaply.
Villain ($350) - loose passive unknown

$10 button straddle. UTG calls, folds to hero in HJ, hero raises to $45 with AK. Villain 2 calls from button and Villain 1 calls.

Flop (Pot $142) A83:

Checks to hero, hero bets $75, Villain 2 folds, Villain 1 calls.

Turn (Pot $292) 4

Villain 1 bets out $200. What is hero's move??

Arrrrrr in.

odd line.. im shovelingggg
and bet more flop

shove

Is villain 1 the UTG player that originally called the straddle pre? If so this has set written all over it. Early call, flat flop, lead strong on turn is a line for a set.

That said,you're not deep enough to care. This is a shove.

Yes, Villain 1 called the straddle pre from UTG and then flatted my raise.

Saw some quotes that said bet more on the flop. By betting more on the flop are we betting out the hands we want to keep in?? Might have made the mistake of narrowing my range for villain down to AQ (thinking AQ of actually). Why wouldn't he check raise on the turn with a set without leading if he puts me on a big Ace??

It seems this is a usual all in, however you say villain is tag player so he could show up with a set here. Also, if he views you as TAG, that lowers the percentage that he makes this play with weak holdings.

Incredibly tough spot, but I still think that I am shoving over his $200, if we are deeper than it makes the hand even more fun to figure out.

~JB

Funny you mention this, I was doing the same thing. With the lack of draws, he either has AQ or a set. Can't imagine much else. I initially thought about a mid-pair preflop as well but given his stack size, the lack of stack sizes for you and the other villain, and him being OOP, I thought he would have 3-bet. But of course he doesn't have to.

With him firing the turn, is there any chance he fired because he thinks you're weak because of the smallish flop bet? If he has a set, I think he'd c/r. But then again he might think that risks you checking back the turn and then you get a free river card with two spades and two clubs on the board.

Confusing hand. Given stack sizes I'm shoving.

So what are we doing if effective stacks are $2100?

Here's the results:

With those effective stack sizes...I'm flatting the turn.

fwiw, I think we have to not label villain as a TAG solid player if he is limp calling with A4s utg in this game. I completely did not see him having this, I know people that are good spaz every once in a while and make suspect calls, etc.. but still seems a bit of a weird play for a "solid TAG"

I was surprised as well...hahaha. Did say he would try to see some flops cheaply but was picking his spots.

OSUTexan,

I think everything went to plan as far as Preflop action goes

However, with a flop of Ac 8s 3c($142) I would want to play it fast and try to take it down right then and there.

A Bet of $75 (1/2ish pot best) is not enough in my opinion to push out the possible Clubs Draw that may be out there. Hell, I might even re-raise with a Flush draw in that spot with 1/2 pot bet coming to me.

I would rather make it 75-80% of the pot there first to act, making it $100-$120 to go, and hopeing to get the W right then and there. If I get called or re-raised there, start evaluating if he is the kind of player to re raise with set of AAA 888 or 333 right there. If he think he is just trying to make a play on you I would shove. If he is a player not capable of a move like that is DEF sitting on a set....Fold and have a nice day.

The 4S brings another Flush draw to the board and a straight draw, although unlikely in this spot(and set of 444???), to the board.

In a pot of $292 Villian bets out 2/3 pot for $200.

Now is the time to be scared for real....what could be have?

Again, is this player capable of making this move with either of the two flush draws on the board? Why is he trying to play it so fast?

I would like to say I would fold here but thats just out of the question....I would call like a donkey and see the river, now swelled to $700.

If a Club or Spade falls, and he leads out betting,....I am gone.

Im hoping for a blank or another A or K to fall, reassuring my hand.

In that case, I would hope he checks and I would check behind, But I would only call about a 1/3 size bet on the river only if a blank fell or I rivered an A or K.

Now, go out there and give those donks some HELL!

Flop bet is good. Lead turn seems like two pair, but I still shove unless I have further reads. It's a straddle pot with 55 bbs effective.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using 2+2 Forums

One thing I did post wrong in this was I had the K not K also.

I was thinking on the flop...what am I trying to achieve with my bet?? Even a pot size bet gives villain the correct odds to call on the flop for a club draw. So I want to keep AQ or AJ in the hand and can probably get 3 streets of value....he has 3 outs on turn and river to hit his card. I welcome a club draw to call on the flop...he misses and then I give him incorrect odds on the turn to call.

As for when he bets on turn...should I call or raise?? If I call...I have $250 left in my stack for a $692 pot ($942 for $250 when he moves in on the river)...don't think it's correct to fold now if 50% of the deck comes ( or )...gotta raise on turn IMO. If he had a set, I think I would've got a check raise from this player on flop or turn...

Appreciate the response bud...let me know what you think..

*Grunch*

A winning player limps UTG, calls a PF raise OOP, c/c the flop for $75, and then leads the turn for $200 when a second FD appears <--To me, that line is strong and represents a narrow range. I think he could have a flopped set (7 combos) or a Suited Ace thats now 2 pair (7 combos) with this line. He couldve limped in EP with a strong ace (AK, AQ, AJ) and just chose to flat PF and flop, but now leads turn to prevent getting checked through. I'm not sure what air/semibluff hands he takes this line with. Why wait until the turn to make a move with these hands when you can just c/r the flop? I don't see him taking this line with a weaker ace like AT. The only exception might be AcXc that's turned a NFD.

To me, your response comes down to how often he has AK, AQ, or AJ in his range here, and in particular AQ and AJ since you just tie AK. If you start to discount AQ or AJ from his range, then your equity goes way down. There are 8 possible combos of each. Since I don't expect him to have a draw here, I don't see a need to raise. So, I'd just call and reevaluate OTR. If he ships the river, I lean towards a fold because his line is so strong and I would expect him to get very concerned about AQ and AJ at that point.

That deep with same sizings and dynamics I'm shutting down. Flatting turn and soul reading a river donk...but most likely calling. The deeper you get the less valuable your one pair hands become, even tptk.