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2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit 2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit

04-27-2014 , 02:40 AM
Hero: ($1,000)

Villain: ($1,500) Basically, Old Man Coffee. Does a lot of limp/folding. Raises huge preflop with premiums, etc.

Preflop: Hero raises to 20 UTG with KT, V calls in BB.

Flop: ($40) T53 V bets 35, Hero calls.

Turn: ($110) 8 V checks, Hero bets 80, V raises to 180, Hero?
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 03:05 AM
Even an old nit might check raise without the nuts (would he call preflop raise with J, Q of clubs? Granted A, Q much more likely from OMC). This is such a crappy spot you're in, but I think it is best to find out where you are at right now. I would 3-bet to about $350. If he shoves, then the writing is on the wall, and you can comfortably throw your hand in the muck. I have seen old nits turbo muck when they get 3-bet -- they usually look like they just sucked a lemon when this happens -- so I really think you need to see where you are at.

Good luck!
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 03:20 AM
Agree with above about information, so I like a raise on the flop here. But not terrible as played. Call him down T and R.
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 03:29 AM
Whats the point in 3betting the turn? We just would turn the hand into a bluff...

We're IP, call turn, probably call river.

IMHO
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 03:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wungee
Even an old nit might check raise without the nuts (would he call preflop raise with J, Q of clubs? Granted A, Q much more likely from OMC). This is such a crappy spot you're in, but I think it is best to find out where you are at right now. I would 3-bet to about $350. If he shoves, then the writing is on the wall, and you can comfortably throw your hand in the muck. I have seen old nits turbo muck when they get 3-bet -- they usually look like they just sucked a lemon when this happens -- so I really think you need to see where you are at.

Good luck!
I really like this. You can click it back to 280 to find out if you are good or not. If he does that thing where he gets really quiet and won't make eye contact, but just smooth calls........FOLD the river. He's got it.

Even though we are barreling away, I think we are still underrepped considering how deep we are and how hard we smash the flop.

but if you just call the 180, you are most likely going to have to call a least another 180 on the river. more like 270ish.
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 06:32 AM
Wow. DO NOT CLICK IT BACK -unless you are doing it for value.Does villain lead draws? I don't know many legit OMC's that do.The limited amount of info you have given in OP leads me to believe you don't know much about the villain, other than you think he is tight.If you click it back do you expect to fold out all worse hands and get shoved on by the nut flush. This proves the fallacy in the thought process behind "raise to find out where you are at" logic.I prefer a flat OTT in postion, if he pots or overbets blank rivers, use sizing/live tells to make a decision. If he checks on blanks, think of a sizing that a worse flush will have to call, I like 225-275.
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 08:00 AM
Donk flop.
Check/raise the turn.

He's not a traditional OMC.
OMC's don't donk their draws. I can't see folding the turn here, but I'm certainly not raising.

Call and call the river if he bets.
Value bet if he checks.
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 10:48 AM
Hero calls turn.

River: ($470) 2 V bets 130, Hero?
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 11:09 AM
Raise fold river as played. I would click it back to 280 and fold turn. If he's really a true nit, he will flat worse flushes and only reraise the nuts. You lose the min when behind and you can get max value on river if he flats
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 11:10 AM
His sizing on river looks like a small flush but could be nut flush looking to induce of squeeze out tiny value
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 11:38 AM
call the turn, definitely not a 3b spot

i don't hate raising the flop but it is dependent on how much SDV you think you have vs his range
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 01:42 PM
Need more info on Hero's image. OMC types hate lag/tags because they are ruining the game by raising too much. If he's got the hex on you, he may take this line with 2-pair or a set thinking you never have the flush here. Also need more info on OMC. Has he ever lead out with a draw?

Without a better read, I too flat the turn and given the sizing on the river you have to ask yourself if you are able to fold a re-raise. The sizing is small, but to a lot of 1/2 players, the bet sizing to pot ratio kind of disappears at some point and a $130 bet is strong. So if you are completely comfortable turbo folding a re-raise, click it back to $300. If you really really hate the idea of facing a re-raise and might even contemplate calling it, then flat his river.
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 02:35 PM
+1000 to calling turn instead of raising. He could re-raise and we're stuck reaching for the barf bag.

I probably just call this river, for much the same reason. V's small lead smells allot like trying to induce a raise from you. It could be a blocking bet, but at this point, I'm ok possibly losing a bit of value to get to showdown. Also, if you factor in the turn check/raise, we probably got about the same value as we would've if V'd just check-called to Value-town like the OMC we read him as.
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Try-Harder-Fish
Hero calls turn.

River: ($470) 2 V bets 130, Hero?
We have to raise, lose way top much value just calling.
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beauvanlaanen
We have to raise, lose way top much value just calling.
no way. this is just the same thing as clicking it back on the turn, but now we are doing it for 130 instead of 100, to get the same information.

our hand is still underrepped, but you have to flat the river also.
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 03:21 PM
call turn, ppl saying raise the turn for information are turning your hand into a bluff as someone else had said.
OMCs are pretty bad at bet sizing so i still wouldnt be shocked if he actually bet this small with the nut flush. however, i'm more inclined to think he has a smaller flush given that sizing.

i was originally going to say that i think that r/f this river to like 350 is fine, but now that i think about it more. given the fact that the K, T, and 8 are all accounted for, the ratio of villains nut flushes vs. non nut flushes given the fact that he even called preflop is probably not good enough for you to raise.
i frown and call.
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 03:32 PM
Raise/fold the river. I'd keep it relatively small to get hands like sets and lower flushes to call since you essentially rep the nuts.

But food for thought... Could you imagine the sick bluff it would be if he bet small to induce the raise and then jammed with the naked ace?
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimshady1999
His sizing on river looks like a small flush but could be nut flush looking to induce of squeeze out tiny value
Actually, in this very scenario you lose more by clicking it back then by check calling, then calling river.
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote
04-27-2014 , 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam levine
Actually, in this very scenario you lose more by clicking it back then by check calling, then calling river.
like I said, it is better to click it back on the turn for 100, than call the river for 130. and certainly better than to raise for the river for 260+.

We are lucky that he is only betting 130 here.
2/5 NL - Turn 2nd nuts, get raised by old nit Quote

      
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