Might raise flop to induce, flatting possibly better.

As played I'm calling, your hand and betsize looks insanely weak and villain never has a flush here (possibly axss) and I'm not sure if he's able to take the same line with worse valuehands.

I think you guys are crazy. He's clearly airballing the flop a lot of the time, just backdoor draws and middle pair or w/e (and we should flat the flop to let him keep doing it). But if he's still airballing, or still only has one bad pair, why bet 1/4 pot on the turn? Obv we're never folding, so obv this is a blocking bet to me with a draw that he picked up here. It doesn't have to be a flush draw, but his hand definitely improved on the turn.

The river is like 50/50 where he has it or not (flush draws vs T9/65/AsX-blocker-into-bluff), but not raising the turn seems like a huge mistake. If he had bet $100 or something, flatting is ok because the price is reasonable, but $50 into $190 is just too damn cheap to let it go in his favor.

His hand is one of two things here:
A spade flush, with or without the Ace, it's hard to tell since we just called called called and never really got any idea of what his range is.
AX (K-T) which would potentially make sense, but once again, hard to know. Also, I don't think that a King is a great card for him to expect us to bet the river on unless somehow he tried to soul read us for exactly KK and thinks we are trying to value bet the river.
Or an airball.

The thing is, we could certainly be taking a bluff catch line here with KK-JJ against his perceived range, and if we are, he could certainly take a check/raise line where we are thinking about folding essentially our entire range here except AA/KK/AK which is a very small part of our range overall, as we really only play this way with KK I think.

All in all, if he's smart at all, I think we need to snap this off on the river.
If he's stupid, I think bet/fold was just fine and we can live with whatever he shows.

This was my line of thinking as well. I don't think my line looks weak at all. 3bet pre, call two (albeit small) bets on an A-high board and bet a king river. Most players in my game have AK at minimum here. Granted, I'm about half the age of most players in my game and clearly looser with my chips. If he was going to bluff, I'd expect him to just lead the river again IMO.

I think our line will be perceived as a lot stronger than what some are giving credit for. We 3bet pre, flatted two bets and then v-bet on the river when checked to. Unless he puts us exactly on the hand we have (AQ going for thin value) then I think he expects to be called here a lot, therefore his bluff frequency should be relatively low.

With OP's new post re: villain read, yes. Bet river, plan to bet fold.

Raise turn.

Raise turn bet obv as a semi-bluff, folding to villain shove. As played check behind his river check instead making of your dinky bet... River bet has very little value as few hands that you beat can call and quite a few can make raises like the one he did that make your a-hole tighten up to the size of a pea. Poker 101: keep the pot small when you only have a pair

as played after all your mistakes, fold river

i think you should be raising flop or turn to get more info on Vs hand. as played i am folding river, i dont think V is ever bluffing here.

In the OP you acknowledge that you've 3betting at a high frequency without reaching showdown, and, furthermore, that you've been 3betting this particular Villain to counteract his aggressive style of play. So, you can't logically conclude that Villain perceives your 3bet range to be the standard QQ+/AQ+. In fact, you have to allow for being levelled here, insofar as Villain is aware that you're aware of your own perceived range (to which the table talk between you also alludes).

Since you have called him on the flop on what is a particularly dry board A83 (one you're likely to c-bet) and also called a 1/4 pot-size bet on the turn, there's further reason NOT to consider your perceived range to be AQ+/QQ+. In my mind, the 1/4 bet on turn is meant to look fishy (a I don't know what else to do with my weak A or middle-pair type of bet), and therefore, coming from this Villain, as described, is more an inducement or a blocker. The hand that would warrant a blocker is Ax (maybe 45 or 910), but he could still comfortably c/c or c/r turn with these hands. (I would include A8 if it weren't not for the c/r on the river.)

The relative scarcity of blocker combos suggests the c/r on the river is a genuine representation of a made hand (set or flushes). Once you call turn you look like you're bluff-catching. But, then again, if you're perceived as bluff-catching, why wouldn't Villain just bomb river rather than risk having you check behind. If he's bluffing, what bluff combos can you include in his range, apart from total air? A bluff line does make sense if Villain initially believed you were just bluff-catching on turn and river, but, then, once you bet river he realises that you actually have a genuine value hand and can only win by turning his mid-pair or whatever into a bluff (whereas previously he was betting these hands for value). You are nearly getting 3:1 on a call, so if you combo count his "total air" hands and "merged" hands (78s, 89s, 5s, 6s, 9s, 10s), then you can probably justify being a Hero. Indeed, maybe if you do the math, it might be hard NOT to justify being such.

The bolded makes no sense imo. Bluff-catching lines here are not betting the river, they're checking down, and someone trying to bet off a bluff catching line knows this and is not c/raising river, he's bombing river if he thinks we're bluff catching.

Given how the hand played, we have to assume vill expects us to have at least a strong A here and wants a call. However, you must have some additional history with vill since most won't c/raise river against 'little knowns' when they make their hand, they'll just bet to avoid losing value.

Vills hand smells a lot like AsXs to me, though other hands like KsQs that got FPSy otf and backdoored into a hand are possible.

Meh, yeah, you're likely right. We are never betting the river with JJ/QQ.

Sick hand. I think its a bet/fold otr and I like your sizing. It looks a lot like the nut flush or a weirdly played AK or a flopped set. If he can hand-read well, its a pretty good spot to bluff, but I just dont think we can give him credit for that. The main reason is that there are zero draws on the flop that he could be barreling.

I think his line is just a little too ridiculous to be a flush.

And even crazy/weird players are pretty much never going to take this line with a set or AK right? I think we can all agree on that?

So reasons why I don't think this is a flush.

- Let's say he has AX. Is his line really going to be to donk 1/2 pot on the flop (very possible), then betting 1/4 pot on the turn when he picks up the flush draw (ehhhhh), followed by checking the river when he makes the nuts (pretty much never imo)? He might be able to make this play if he's specifically putting you on AK and is expecting you to bet. But you've been 3betting him all night and it's been frustrating him, so your perceived range has to be so much wider here. I just don't think he expects you to bet that river often enough to justify check/raising. Especially with so little in the pot already.

- You've shown a lot of weakness by just check/calling the flop and the very small turn bet. For this reason I would actually expect villain to be putting you on something less than AK. Thus, all the more reason for him to think he can blow you off of the hand when you bet the river (especially if he has the A).

- We've also seen him make an extremely similar play where he tried to blow someone else off of a good hand by bombing the river. You also noted that he tried to bluff a FISH, so he must not be much of a thinking player.

I'm putting him on another spazz bluff, call.

Thanks for the input, folks.

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