Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
/ NL River on Flopped bottom set / NL River on Flopped bottom set

08-12-2018 , 04:20 PM
Friday night in a busy room. Hero is older WG, regular in the room, has played with the opponent several times. He is a younger WG, a winning TAGish style player. We know one another but have never played any material pots HU. I requested a change to this table. Effective stack is $780, Villain covers.

OTTH:
An EP player limps, folds to me in MP 2 and I over limp with 4s4d. A LP player calls, folds to Villain in BB who taps the table.

($22) flop of Jc6c4h is checked to Hero who bets $15. Folds to BB who C/R to $55. Folds to Hero who calls.

($125 after rake) turn of 3d and BB leads $60. Hero takes about 10 seconds and calls.

($245) river of 8h and BB leads $125 (a black and a green).

An obvious limped pot, so 66/J6/J4/64/75 would be my narrowed range given the opponent line until now. From a pure combo perspective there are 19 ahead (75/66) and 15 (J6/J4/64) behind. Opponent is always raising JJ/AJs from the BB, especially after seeing a couple of limps by myself and another winning regular in EP.

Hero is not folding, so call or raise? As always, thoughts on entire hand are welcome.
/ NL River on Flopped bottom set Quote
08-12-2018 , 04:25 PM
In a limped pot, I think I give V credit for 2p, sets, and straights here. He has a lot more combos of straights than 2 pair. For that reason, I flat. If you were deeper, 1200+, I might be more inclined to consider a raise.
/ NL River on Flopped bottom set Quote
08-12-2018 , 05:40 PM
Feels like some strange 2P hand to me. J6/64. I would click it back to 275 and call a raise. Could be 66.... But the escalating bets feel more like 2P.

Sent from my SM-N950U using 2+2 Forums
/ NL River on Flopped bottom set Quote
08-12-2018 , 06:00 PM
Jamming makes sense to me. He's in BB, so all combinations of J6 are in play. We block many 64/J4, but there are some of those too. I think without solid reads, we have to assume at least 50% of the time he'll call with those hands. We're really only afraid of 66/75cc/52cc.

Min-raise/folding is also not the craziest thing ever, but it's pretty thin at these stack depths (aka this plan would really suck if he's the type to re-shove J6 into us, etc).
/ NL River on Flopped bottom set Quote
08-12-2018 , 06:05 PM
i would have clicked it back OTF.

AP river is a pretty standard call. too thin to raise IMO, particularly against a skilled player.

limped pots require skewing our play towards caution when considering reopening the betting.

the better thin value play is to min-pop him OTF. hand plays itself after that.
/ NL River on Flopped bottom set Quote
08-12-2018 , 06:13 PM
I like a 3b OTF ~$150. Obviously, flatting can be an option here since we're against a thinking player, but I really don't see what we fold out other than J4/64, which we block heavily. As played, I go ~min-2.5x max. Doubt anything other than 75/66 shoves back.
/ NL River on Flopped bottom set Quote
08-12-2018 , 08:37 PM
Flop or turn is a must raise. V can have ton of draws and only hand we are behind is 66. Sure we might fold out J6, but there are way more combos since his range is uncapped (A4cc, A3cc, 57, 35, etc)

AP, I think that while you can raise to 275 or so OTR, what worse do you get called by from a winning TAG? Not expecting to get called by anything other than him backing into a hand like J8, which he does not overplay OTF like that.
/ NL River on Flopped bottom set Quote
08-12-2018 , 08:49 PM
So given that we are mostly getting value from 2p and value owning ourselves against 66 here, I actually think the question becomes, how we jam, would he be levelled into thinking we missed the main draw, which in this case is clubs.

We have essentially a PSB behind after the call, I think a jam here is definitely good enough to stick it in here and put J6 to the test. Their J6 will not block any clubs and if hero has shown tendency to be brave enough to go for it, a small raise will be more questionable than a bomb.

We aren't getting more value from a naked J, and we are definitely getting stacked by 66 and 75cc if we think about raising here. In the long run, just purely J6 will have 9 combos which we should put to the test compared to 4 combos that we just take ourselves to value town. I'm jamming this spot because it is just way too good. We could have a bunch of missed clubs so if we raise, make it big, and jamming is just the right amount.

I'd raise pre, bet call flop IP, call turn, tank jam river.
/ NL River on Flopped bottom set Quote
08-14-2018 , 08:35 AM
Good feedback, thx.

I think a flop or turn raise should have been in order. I didn’t raise the flop fearing he would fold most of his range (weaker 2-pr/draws) given we know one another’s play. Opted to flat ip, evaluate turn, potentially raising any action.

OTT his ~1/2 PSB seemed weak for top of range hands (66/75o), giving implied odds to flush draws or pair/combos in my range. Flatting here was inconsistent with my flop analysis/action.

On the river, I think a min-raise might have worked, since he would never come over the top with worse. Did not even entertain the jam, which might have looked like a missed FD line, and consistent with how I played the hand.

I tanked for a bit and tossed in 5 greens and MHWG > J6.
/ NL River on Flopped bottom set Quote
08-14-2018 , 09:36 AM
I actually don't think this villain has a lot of straights and the main hand I'm worried about is 66.

The problem is, he could've xr the flop w/ 75s and I don't think he pays off a raise w/ less than jacks up. So nitrolling here is probably fine. I'd shove if I had like 350-400 to start the river action.
/ NL River on Flopped bottom set Quote
08-14-2018 , 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomelessPizza
Flop or turn is a must raise. V can have ton of draws and only hand we are behind is 66. Sure we might fold out J6, but there are way more combos since his range is uncapped (A4cc, A3cc, 57, 35, etc)

AP, I think that while you can raise to 275 or so OTR, what worse do you get called by from a winning TAG? Not expecting to get called by anything other than him backing into a hand like J8, which he does not overplay OTF like that.
+1, especially raise on flop or turn.
/ NL River on Flopped bottom set Quote
08-14-2018 , 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samo
Good feedback, thx.

I think a flop or turn raise should have been in order. I didn’t raise the flop fearing he would fold most of his range (weaker 2-pr/draws) given we know one another’s play. Opted to flat ip, evaluate turn, potentially raising any action.

OTT his ~1/2 PSB seemed weak for top of range hands (66/75o), giving implied odds to flush draws or pair/combos in my range. Flatting here was inconsistent with my flop analysis/action.

On the river, I think a min-raise might have worked, since he would never come over the top with worse. Did not even entertain the jam, which might have looked like a missed FD line, and consistent with how I played the hand.

I tanked for a bit and tossed in 5 greens and MHWG > J6.
Ouch! Took me a second to realize 5 greens = call. I bet Villain was pissed to see your hand after you tank called with a set on such a dry board.

Honestly the flop is the best chance to get it all in:
- Villain more likely to have odds with some sort of draw
- Villain can put you on a draw

If Villain had 66 he likely would have bet bigger and you would have lot more regardless.
/ NL River on Flopped bottom set Quote

      
m