Hero: Young male, been on the tighter side, early into a session, stack of $700.

V: middle-aged male, was short stacked when Hero sat down but has built his stack up to $400 since.

Folded to Hero in MP, raises to $20 with J9o. V calls otb and blinds fold.

Flop ($45ish): JJQr. Hero bets $30 and V calls fairly quickly.

Turn ($105ish): JJQKcc. Hero bets $65 and V calls.

River ($235ish): JJQK8 no flush. Hero checks and V bets $200 with about $90 behind. Hero...?

Comments on all streets welcome.

Fold pre. Bet more on turn. As played Im folding river.

Is pre normal for you at a new table?

Fold river probably good. Kinda. What about b/f?

I dont see much he could have called with twice and is now turning into a bluff. You lose to QJ/KJ/AJ/T9/AT. His river bet seems too big to be KT/AQ/AK. im not sure ifnim good enough to do it, but i think this is a fold.

Fold pre. Fold river. Prefer you bet river though.

Why bet river? What are we trying to get called by? I think we get called by KQ and maybe AK sometimes but I think V 3 bets AK pre.

I was sensing that this table was more on the passive side so I was thinking I could raise most hands in MP and LP and win a lot of pots with a c-bet.

You should have a plan for each of your plays. You cant ask "why bet river?" without a reason. You came up with a reason which was "I cannot typically get called by worse." But what you failed to also ask is if I check and he bets what do i do now. If its a clear cut fold, then checking is fine. But if itll leave you more confused as V would sense weakness and likely bet, then you may have been better of making a value bet and folding to a raise.

This will give you a clearer indication of where you stand as well as getting you paid off by a weaker hand. Even a fold by V OTR is better as it disguises your light MP raising range.

Is this not a thread for asking question about the hand I played. Somebody said I should bet river and I wanted to ask that person why. That's it.

During the hand my reasoning for not betting river was that I didn't think there was a large enough range of hands V has that I can get value from. I also didn't think there we're many hands V can be bluffing with and I didn't think V was the type of play to turn AQ or QT into a bluff. I am just looking at different options to play the hand.

You bet for value against a wide range of hands because opponents at this level have a difficult time folding rivers after putting in money on previous streets. It also makes this spot easier to play as it's an easy fold if raised.

Grunch:

How did V build up his stack? This is super-important info.

Fold pre. Seriously this hand sucks in MP. Has hero really been "on the tighter side?"

Not bad, but I go bigger. People tend to be non-believers on paired boards, so go 40-50.

Definitely bet bigger or not at all here. Board is wet enough that free cards kinda suck, and he has something he likes, which are arguments for a big bet for value. OTOH, we have trips bad kicker, and he called a paired board. If he didn't just get there on us, only backdoor draws are a problem with free cards. We'll likely get a river bet from AQ and KQ if we check here, and we're only getting one more bet from that part of his range anyway.

Playing trips weak kicker for stacks on a paired board OOP kinda sucks, which is why we fold pre. If we bet here, we're pretty much committed, so we should be making a bet that makes it possible to get stacks in OTR. This is where V's tendencies become very important. If he's a station who chipped up by calling down with TP hands on scary boards, I bet 75-85 for value, but if he's a slow-player who is unlikely to bluff, I check turn and feel fine about it.

This is very player=type dependent. I b/f small for value and to keep from getting bluffed/playing weak trips for more money than I want to here against all but the nittiest. Against the nits, if I got here AP, I c/f pretty easily.

AP, fold. You gave up the initiative because you weren't comfortable with your hand. A middle aged guy made a big bet on a scary board after calling twice. Unless you have reads that he's spewy, KQ is the bottom of his range here, and the rest of it all beats you.

This.

As played calling is player dependent. How was he playing to build his stack? What kind of hands did he show down with. On the river Id bet between 110-160. At this level you can play trips fast and a river raise would be an easier fold. Aq kq jt are hands that a V could be betting you not putting you on trips but since you showed weakness its hard to call.

I was sitting at the table for about 2 hours before this hand happened and this was roughly the 7th or 8th hand I had opened. So I would say I had been tight. The table was fairly loose pre flop with lots of limpers and when someone opened pre flop there was often 2-4 callers going to every flop. So when it was folded to me in middle position I decided to open J9o. Probably could have folded pre flop but I don't think opening in that spot is bad.

When I sat down V had roughly $150-$180 in front of him and within the first 45 minutes of me sitting down V had doubled by getting it in pre flop with KK vs QQ, so very standard with his stack size. I had no other reads on V besides that and I don't think much can be taken from that play.

FWIW it was folded to V in late position and he raised to $25, button raises to $80 and V shoved.

Nothing wrong with betting J9 in MP, but I think there's something wrong with hitting your hand that strong and then not figuring out how to get most of the money in by the turn.

I'd need a very good reason to get away from trips for 80bb. So my bet sizing otf and ott are going to be design to get stacks in. Especially as the preflop raiser.

Since you left over a PSB otr I guess you're not getting a very good price now. Also, the run of the board is terribad for your hand.

I guess as played fold now and be thankful you poor bet sizing ended up saving you money.

So you wanted to play against 2-4 Vs OOP with J9o? This does not sound like a recipe for success to me.

GREAT POST! THANKS! SO HELPFUL!