Dgi given best advice. Biggest thing is AA isn't a monster here. Getting 2 streets on this type of board is pretty standard vs described villains. Call turn call river. Win money

I'm not so sure. The only way we can keep from playing for stacks (if villain wants to force it) is if we let a street check through. Otherwise, the following "could" happen.

Scenario #1

Flop(60): 5 6 5
V1 chks, V2 chks, Hero bets $55, V1 c/r to $155, V2 calls, Hero calls

Turn(525) 3
V1 bets $400, V2 folds, Hero calls

River(1325) X
V1 goes all-in for $900-ish...

Scenario #2

Flop(60): 5 6 5
V1 chks, V2 chks, Hero bets $55, V1 c/r to $155, V2 folds, Hero calls

Turn(370) 3
V1 bets $300, Hero calls

River(970) X
V1 goes all-in for $900-ish...


Basically, unless we check one street, we will be unable to prevent villain from forcing us to play for stacks. So it's incorrect to assume that we can play 3 streets here and "not" be in danger of playing for stacks.

And whenever we are playing for stacks in a spot like this with AA for 200bb+, it just rarely works out well for AA

or put another way. Do we really expect villain to stack off 200bb+ with 99 or TT here???

Again, standard villains and standard situations I'm all for a bet-bet-bet line. But based on OP I don't think that is optimal for reasons i've outlined

dgi, aren't there a ton of hands from which we get value on the flop but not turn and river? For example, 87, 86, 65, 76, 43, 22, 44, 77-JJ, A6s, A4s, hearts, maybe over cards, etc.

Lots of pairs, draws, and pairs + draws.

On very many turn cards, we no longer get value from those hands. A heart, a high overcard, a straightening card, etc., will largely eliminate our ability to get value from worse hands in villain's range and effectively strengthen his continuing range vs. AA.

I agree there's some benefit to "shortening" the hand by checking the flop and playing two streets. But I'm not convinced that benefit is greater than the benefit we get from value betting the flop given texture and dynamics likely to unfold on further streets.

Yeah, there are definitely competing principles here.

Ultimately, I think I may be letting a bias impair my judgement here. I am just adamant about what type of hands I stack off for 200bb+ vs the type of players that I stack off with.

I also think my style of play gives me a different perspective on these types of situations vs the typical LLSNL player.

Most LLSNL players have a very tight raising range and they wait all day for that "big" hand and so when they have AA in a spot like this, they can't wait to bet-bet-bet.

But I have such a wide raising range and I play fairly aggressive post flop that I just don't get all tingly when I get AA. And when I'm 200bb+ deep in pots like this I'm just not in love with my AA because it's pots like this where AA gets stacked by some random 5x hand.

I'm all for extracting value but if you read the OP, our villains are highly prone to c/r and barreling. Because of that, I want to take the option away from them for forcing us to play for stacks. That is why I don't mind letting the flop check through.

Now, if our villains were NOT prone to c/r'ing and barreling and forcing big stack play then I absolutely am with you guys for betting each street and extracting value. however, based on the OP that isn't the case. Based on the OP our villains like to c/r and force big pot play. And it is my contention that whenever that is the case on a board like this AA just doesn't fair very well which again is why I'm letting the flop check through.

willyoman, this is sorta along the lines of what I'm thinking.

Also, DGI
this is assuming vill is going to 3barrel off a large % of the time. What about the times he slows down ott or river. Isn't there a difference between c/rai light to try to take it down and c/rai with the intention of emptying the clip on later streets?

Op, have you seen vill 3barrel ship in the hands previously played?

thanks for the response dgi, I understand that aces go down in value the deeper we get, but don't they go up in value based on specific vill tendencies? I guess I'm having a hard time deciding which situation deserves more merit.

The guy c/r these boards a tonne so he must have at least as many draws and air as he does hands > AA. In reality he is unbalanced towards hands worse than AA, and we have the backdoor nutflush, so hearts shouldn't scare us as much. Why are we suddenly afraid of playing for stacks vs this guy? If he was just a station/passive we'd go bet bet bet but because he's doing the aggressive nature we don't want money in the pot? If he's willing to raise with a range far worse than our hand OOP we should be encouraging it. We should be salivating at the thought of the pot getting big rather than being scared of the times when we get stacked.

Checking the flop is terrible. I'm happy to bet/call/hold on for dear life in this spot vs described villain. Flop checkers...what is your cbetting range here? Boats only?

Lolvariance vs good aggro players that are capable of playing well OOP. You can't just check down/ pot control the top of your range in fear of facing aggression/playing a big pot. That is the definition of exploiting yourself.

AP don't fold turn you are extremely under repped.

grunch: I stopped reading at the flop check

Yes - you are exploiting yourself

like I'm confused ... why are you even raising PF if you are not going to bet top overpair here? I would have raised more pre but this is about as good of a board to stack off on the flop as you are gonna see in my opinion (unless you are putting him on exactly 7 8) so what is so scary about this board to not bet it?

Seems like a mandatory flop bet.