V is a pro, I've played with him for 6 hours. 10 minutes prior I doubled up thru him with a set vs his top 2. I have $1600, he has me covered, maybe $2.3K.

Hours ago I saw him wildly overbet AI with a double draw, straight and flush, he caught, and doubled up to get his big stack.. I've seen him do a wild overbet about an hour ago and he told the opponent, who folded, that V doesn't understand poker and odds, he just bets big when he thinks he's strong. So he's a BS artist.

I'm in CO, there was an EP bet to $15, 3 callers, and I call with 45su. V is next to act and also calls.

Pot = $75, 5 players. Flop = 457. It's two suited but none of my suits.

Everyone, including me checks to V. He's aggressive and almost always bets into a multiway checked street when he's last to act. As I expected, he puts out a pot sized bet of $75.

It folds around to me and I follow thru with the plan, raise to $200. He's folded to my aggression previously making non offensive indirect comments that indicate he views me as an OMC.


He pauses a few seconds and goes AI. I have to decide for my stack. He might be thinking I just doubled up and won't want to risk my remaining $1400.

call or fold?

Flop massive overbet all in is like ALWAYS a draw. Its possible he thinks youve seen him do this a few times with draws and he is jamming 68/77 but i am calling when he could have any flush draw and any 6x (especially 67/65/64). You double blocker sets too, so only 5 set combos. I dont think he does this with 2 pair.

Did he really only pause for a few seconds? Because tank jam is always the nuts or near nuts and i would fold.

If the action is as you described then there’s 6 players to the flop and the pot is $90.

Given you are CO, I would have bet the flop because you have a vulnerable made hand on a wet/dynamic flop vs. 5 opponents. There are any number of turns that will put someone else ahead of you, whether a straight, flush, better two pair or set. There’s no reason to check here and give the field a chance to catch up.

This is about a good of a flop as you’re gonna see, so when you decide to call pre and xr the flop you need to be mentally prepared to stack off if V goes apeshit.

As played, your read is he’s willing to overplay draws and he just 8x’d your raise (which leads me to believe he’s more draw heavy like A6s/76/66/65/A8s/A3s). I think this qualifies.

I agree what buz says. I’m skeptical that a pro talks to his villains condescendingly. It’s a losing strategy to make your opponents feel bad about losing. The advice I get from pros on this site is more nitty than your V’s history suggests. Your description of V moves me toward a call.

Against this big of an overbet we are folding everything but sets. Even 44s is close. 54 is not at all close, it’s a snap-fold, move on to the next hand.

Pretty much no actual analysis here so far.

Over jamming the nuts to make it look polarized to a semi-draw when he’s done that before is a hugely profitable line when it gets called by bottom two in a 95-5 spot. He was just talking crazy and knows you heard it too.

Villian was on button pre and just flatted 15? Now he is blasting off 100x that after resisting a squeeze pre. 66 makes little sense to start the range conversation. A6 K6 suited hands as well. He doesnÂ’t have much semi-bluff range that you are 65-35 on.

You can pick off wild spew shoves sometimes when he is tilting and has middle pair only and fold sometimes too. I would call with some top two+ and include all two pairs and sets and straights now in his pure value range.

Correct. My error.

If V really sees me as an OMC, my x/r should be seen as super strong. And my long day with him paid off as he was a reliable bettor into a checked street. I would have played it the same as if I had a made straight with the board 2 to a flush.

he didn't speak condescendingly to anyone. He was a very chatty, nice guy. When I say he viewed me as an OMC, it's because I am a gray beard and he had made prior comments about respecting my raises and a couple of times when I was AI vs other Vs and showed the nuts, he said things like of course I had to have that nutty hand.

Lead flop. Pretty tough spot against a wide-ranging opponent, 45 is actually very low in your xr range.

Sounds like stacking off is ok mostly because this villain seems like a punter, but still feels close without knowing more on how bad his punts have been.

Call, going off your description of him, not on whether he is a pro or not. I'm no pro, but I wouldn't peg him as one based off what you said. The tank... could be over pair.

edit- I do get that no "pro" would jam and overpair, anything that calls is doom on your board. But the guy sounds room temp iq, I would call and would not be shocked by jj

dont think you should xr when he nearly pots into 6 people with your hand lol. would not put the money in now

For those of you doubting V is a pro, I heard lots of convo all day which screamed of pro. People walking by spoke to him by name.

Venetian has a promo tournament that the players with the most hours in a month earn a free seat. He discussed playing that tourney with ~150 hours the min to get in the prior month. His review of the leader board showed he would need 180+ hours this month, so he needed to log at least 12 hours that day.

Of course, none of that proves he's good or a winner, but it does make him a full-time equivalent player.

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A reasonable range for V (with this SPR) is gonna be 86, 63, 77, 55, and a few monster draws (A3ss, A6ss, etc.) You are ~dead to the value, and only flipping with the draws.

You have an SPR of like ****ing 200. No, we are never ever ever ever ever calling it all off with two pair (and not even top two! Bottom two!). This spot isn’t even remotely close. Close would be pocket 4s—and even that should probably hit the muck.

This would be a bad call. You can easily have all sets and 86s. Your best case scenario is he has 6x with a flush draw. He thinks you’re a nit but shoves over your check raise for a huge amount with Q6o? I don’t see it.

He might do this with better 2p too, though that seems pretty light. He’s completely uncapped here.

The talk and grinding would all support the hypothesis that he’s a pro. I would act on that hypothesis until further evidence. But knowing a lot of names doesn’t make you a pro. The stronger evidence is action. He may know poker and even think he’s a pro but also have a leak with spews.

Don’t like your flop raise at all, and I don't get why people would wanna put in 1600 here at 2/5. Your read is that this guy is gonna bet the flop no matter what, so I would start with a check/call and see what happens next.

Yeah, he could even have 74 here, basically everything.

Just lead flop (most obv line) or x Call (if you really have specific notes that he is so aggressive and always bets).

My first reaction was that you should fold to his huge shove.

If we know V's aggro and will bet flop when checked to then flop check is fine.
BUT what are we hoping for with the C/R ?
before doing this we should have the answer to that question !
we didn't think and plan ahead and got caught with our pants down out in no mans land.

folding and going for a walk...

Just bet pot on flop. We don't mind taking it down now.

AP, I'd fold to V's jam, if we have a tight table image. He could have called pre with almost any two, and just called your x/r and played some poker on later streets.

He has all the 2P+ in his range here, and 54 is the worst hand that could stack off. I'd be surprised if he doesn't have a set or 86.

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Exactly. We put in $15 preflop and we're going to put in 1500 post with bottom two? Hoping that our opponent is even more foolish than we are? In a 5 way pot? I can get behind check call or bet fold but anything else is begging to get stacked.

Good Q. Previously when I had showed aggression he had backed down, mentioned that my raises should be respected, etc. I really thought the x/r would take down the pot.

Results:


I tank folded. Maybe I was being MUBSy, but I thought there was a good chance he had set me up with the prior overbets and wouldn't do the same tactic 3 times when it's such an attention getting thing.



A couple of hands later, he asked me what I had and I didn't answer except to say it was pretty good. He then claimed to have had A6su for the double draw and couldn't believe I would fold 2P. He guessed my hand (I gave no confirmation) but that's really not all that impressive given my reluctant fold.


The fact that he BSed about his hands, skills, and strategy so often led me to believe A6su could not be what he had. I think he was just trying to tilt me. But who knows?



I left the table 10 minutes later. Bellagio was much better for my bankroll.