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2/5: Middle set multiway 2/5: Middle set multiway

04-04-2016 , 06:25 PM
5 players, 2/5...

Hero (720) raises 15 with 66 utg
Next guy in CO folds
BTN (300) calls
SB (200) calls
BB (300) calls

Flop (60): T62
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets 15, everyone calls

Turn (120): K
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets 45, SB calls, BB calls, Hero ?

SB and BB are bad/stationy players. Hero stacked BTN for 40 bbs before when he raise/called a 3bet in SB with 99 against Hero's KK in BB and then check/shoved on a low board, after which BTN reloaded and Hero changed seats.
2/5: Middle set multiway Quote
04-04-2016 , 06:45 PM
120 to go.
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04-04-2016 , 06:48 PM
what is the read on the button?

I think you should have c-bet the flop rather than risk it checking through. if they are stations, you want to get the money in the pot.

AP - the stations have put in 1/2 - 1/3 their stacks, so a raise would be good and make it as big as you think they will call.
2/5: Middle set multiway Quote
04-04-2016 , 06:52 PM
$145/ship river
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04-04-2016 , 07:23 PM
I agree with betting flop. Unless we've got a read on BTN, we can't expect him to make action. As played, a small c/r to the small flop bet would work nicely as well. People are already committed multi-way so the move would make shipping easier on turn. As played, bet as big as you think you'll get called OTT.
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04-04-2016 , 07:48 PM
it would be a disaster if you flop this hand and don't get stacks in
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04-04-2016 , 07:57 PM
Bet flop against stations, bet turn against stations and as played raise to 130.
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04-04-2016 , 08:14 PM
Quickly raise to $185.00 and stare at one of the station's...

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2/5: Middle set multiway Quote
04-04-2016 , 08:32 PM
bet flop against this many opponents - either one of them has something or one of them is bad enough to call with nothing. Against one villain on a board this dry I can go for one street of slowplaying but not this multiway.

Bet and try and get stacks in vs. somebody.
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04-05-2016 , 12:57 AM
So you raise PF, get 3 callers, 2 of whom are described as stationy bad players, you flop middle set, and you elect to check? Uh, wait, what?

Flop check is beyond atrocious. After button bets and both stations call, you should c/r for value.

Turn check is terrible as well, BTN is likely to check back a lot of Tx combos when the K hits, and getting a street checked through would be a disaster after you got very little in on the flop.

As played, raise to $170 and ship the river.
2/5: Middle set multiway Quote
04-05-2016 , 03:35 AM
It looks like everyone is pretty weak with the button capped at qk type hands, if everyone has what is essentially a bluff catcher id raise to what looks bluffest, so id tank and make it $100, then shove all rivers, I think a lot of the time the stations will do what stations do and call drawing dead.
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04-05-2016 , 09:29 AM
As stated, bet flop! Since you checked flop, I like the call, but you must raise turn.

You got lucky twice that BTN did the betting for you.
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04-05-2016 , 11:19 AM
Why check a monster when nobody knows what you have?
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04-05-2016 , 12:10 PM
The slowplay is fine. But one of the predicates is you must be reasonably sure that you won't get action unless you do slowplay.

AP, you are now at a point where multiple players have demonstrated interest in the pot, so you should stop slowplaying. Just min-raise to $100 without any evidence that a larger raise works better; that will make the pot $350 and you're good to go.
2/5: Middle set multiway Quote
04-05-2016 , 01:14 PM
Bet flop. Bet turn. Shove river. EZ game.

Seriously, wtf are we doing in this hand with all the checking? Eff. stacks are 60 bb, for christ's sake.
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04-05-2016 , 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadlyBeaten
The slowplay is fine. But one of the predicates is you must be reasonably sure that you won't get action unless you do slowplay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by op

SB and BB are bad/stationy players
Does not compute
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04-05-2016 , 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwolyswoND
Does not compute
Hero is playing his hand against 3 other players and would like to get ALL four of the stacks in. Does it compute now?
2/5: Middle set multiway Quote
04-05-2016 , 02:13 PM
I just felt like I was getting too many folds OTF on this kind of a board and was fine even if BTN checked it back, but luckily, he didn't. Check/raising now would look super-strong and wanted everyone in, so I just flatted. If it had checked through, I wanted them to catch pairs/draws OTT.

I think I made a mistake by checking here as BTN should check back his Tx pretty often here, but I took the risk, and got lucky he bet again. Once both blinds called again, I was clueless as to what they had. But it would suck to just call and have them river a gutshot or some backdoor flush against me.

Felt that check/raising small OTT would look super strong, so given stacks, I just decided to shove and look bluffy.

BTN called, blinds tank-folded. And I lost to TT.

Still wondering what on Earth the blinds had.
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04-05-2016 , 02:15 PM
Those recommending betting flop, how much do you size it every street?
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04-05-2016 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadlyBeaten
Hero is playing his hand against 3 other players and would like to get ALL four of the stacks in. Does it compute now?
Nope. You yourself said you should only slowplay if we are unlikely to get action besides by checking. The fact that both blinds are stationy directly contradicts this point.

And we're not going to get all four of the stacks in by checking anyway. Villains will need a piece of this flop to continue in a 4way pot, and stacks are shallow. Villains are more likely to pay on the flop/turn than the turn/river.
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04-05-2016 , 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L00t
Those recommending betting flop, how much do you size it every street?
30 on flop, then assuming only one caller, 60 on turn, shove river. If we get multiple callers on flop and turn is an action-type card, we could shove turn.

Stacks are way too shallow to get fancy here.

Last edited by SwolyswoND; 04-05-2016 at 03:20 PM.
2/5: Middle set multiway Quote
04-05-2016 , 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L00t
Those recommending betting flop, how much do you size it every street?
$40 flop, $100 turn, shove river gets the money in easily against the $300 stacks. If just SB calls flop, then we can jam turn.
2/5: Middle set multiway Quote
04-06-2016 , 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAHZero
$40 flop, $100 turn, shove river gets the money in easily against the $300 stacks. If just SB calls flop, then we can jam turn.
So your cbets aren't a function of board texture?
2/5: Middle set multiway Quote
04-06-2016 , 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwolyswoND
Nope. You yourself said you should only slowplay if we are unlikely to get action besides by checking. The fact that both blinds are stationy directly contradicts this point.
What you did here was misquote me and then make up a definition of a word to suit your purpose. I.e. stationy now means that the player will call all bets and all raises all the time.

Based on your discussion style, I presume you are female.

You are simply ignoring the FACTS, that this is a multiway pot and we flopped the nuts. Our ONLY objective is to get as many chips in the middle as possible. If opening the betting on every street was the only way to do that, the game of poker would likely not exist.

I.e. if we lead the flop and OTB raises, the blinds will likely drop out. And that's the WORST POSSIBLE result. Does it compute now?

Last edited by BadlyBeaten; 04-06-2016 at 09:49 AM.
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04-06-2016 , 10:25 AM
I quoted directly from your post (hint, that's what the little arrow next to the quoted portion does, it directs you right to where I quoted you from) - if that is "misquoting" you, then it is you, not me, who is making up a definition of a word to suit your purpose.

The definition of stationy, which any decent player on this forum recognizes, is that a player will call with most or any piece of the board. That's exactly what we want them to do with a half-potish size bet on this flop. You can't accomplish that by checking.

I'm not ignoring any "FACTS," you are the one coming up with a worst-case scenario. We have not been any indication that BTN is likely to raise on this insanely dry flop. Also, if we lead and BTN raises, and blinds fold, then it is likely they didn't have anything they were going to pay significant bets for anyway.

So no, still nothing you said computes, but that's typical for your god-awful advice on this forum.
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