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/ Merged Range?? / Merged Range??

05-01-2013 , 03:39 AM
$2/$5 merged range?

Limped pot 5 ways
33 on the Btn with $1500 stack

Flop T83r
Villain: Really good aggressive player ($1365) very capable of running big bluffs from what I have been told however I have not seen them myself. this is only my second session playing with him and i know he is definitely thinking but have only seen him play quite straight forward.
Villain leads SB $15
Gets 2 calls
I raise $65
He calls
Others Fold

Turn 7r
X
I bet $100
He raises $315
I call

River4
Shoves $900
Hero??

IMO villain shows up with J9, sets, and two pairs that are turned into bluffs. I simply haven't seen enough from Villain to assume that he is capable of turning two pairs into bluffs like 87, T7 or even a hand like 97.
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05-01-2013 , 08:36 AM
He's repping sets and straights all day.
Though as an aggressive player I can't see him limping in with TT, or maybe even 88.

By you holding the bottom set, he has very few 2pairs that he turns into bluffs, (is he that good that he knows top two is never good?). Ehh I don't know if he leads out then flats with a straight draw OOP. I'm leaning towards a call.

It'd be nice to have more history on similar lines from the opponent first though.
Interesting to see how it turned out, OP.
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05-01-2013 , 08:49 AM
I don't expect him to be holding anything you beat here. I expect j9 most often. Oh, and price sucks too

Sent from my SPH-D710 using 2+2 Forums
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05-01-2013 , 09:23 AM
Wait...

So he lead flop/ called, ck raised turn and then shoved rvr on you?

I originally thought this could be a bluff bc i am suspicious of rvr shoves that should be more valuey to keep a weaker hand in....

but then i carefully reread the action... If that is what happened then his line is super strong and i think you can fold here for sure and not lose any sleep over it.
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05-01-2013 , 09:24 AM
Don't think he's merging as much of his range as you think

Without more reads I reluctantly fold river
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05-01-2013 , 10:41 AM
I think you might have out-levelled yourself here.

Villain's range is almost nuts everytime. Just fold.
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05-01-2013 , 12:05 PM
Grunch

Lol... Gross spot.

TBH, I think he will show up here with the nuts or and over played two pair (T8) more than anything else. I wouldn't be including sets in his range except for maybe 88, although you would think that he would raise that pre.

If you really think that he is merging hands like 97/T7/87, then it's a call, but if not, then it's a puke fold. Also, if he is merging... it's a bad spot to do so. What does he really expect you to have here that is going to pay off a non top-two pair given that you limped OTB pre? This one kinda comes down to reads. If you decide that he really can be bluffing here then call, but I think it's the nuts more than not.
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05-01-2013 , 12:10 PM
This guy would have to be blufftastic for you to call this spot.

I mean, once you call his turn raise, you are saying you have a strong made hand. Yet, he's still shoving river into you.

He has J9 very often.
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05-01-2013 , 12:15 PM
Puke.

Don't know about turning 2pr into a bluff as I assume he'd just take a cautious value line. (Also the awkward 2pr combos)

What would more likely be a bluff is 10 9 or 89.

But yea I think you can fold here and feel okay about it.
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05-01-2013 , 12:43 PM
raise pre. as played bet turn a bit bigger to get value from 2p and maybe some p+oesd that he doesnt want to fold. after x/r on turn you are probably not ahead very often, especially if he is good, so i think your most likely drawing to a full house.

this is a limp pot and you say villain is good so i really doubt hes going to be overplaying 2p in such a horrible way, especially when your range is made up mostly of sets (particularly 33), flopped 2p, and the nuts after you call his turn c/r, and hes likely aware of this. the only bluff he can even show up here with is 79, and i doubt hes ever bluffing in this spot anyways (plus there are more combos of J9 than 79 available with the 7 on the board).

this is a pretty clear fold on the river, and i dont think its particularly close. you have like the 8th nuts in a limp pot when a good opponent has shoveled close to 300 bbs in by the river, your good pretty much never.
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05-01-2013 , 12:59 PM
I guess the question is, what would we expect him to do with 97?

There are two OESDs on the flop, J9, and 97.

Is V going to blast the turn to $315 with J9?

On turn, pot is $150-ish and you lead out $100 and he c/r to $315, that's a big c/r. So to me, the question becomes, would this villain who you describe as "very good aggressive not afriad of running big bluffs..." would he take this line with 97.

if the answer is yes, then we can make a crying call.

If the answer is no, then we fold.

V is in the small blind and I don't see him limping TT so only real set combo he has here is 88.

Also, a very important piece of info that is missing is how villain percieves you. Have you been making big laydowns all day or have you been stacking off light?

If you have been folding to big river bombs all day and this is what villain has seen, then that makes the case he's trying to blow you off the hand so you should call. Conversely, if you have been calling big river bombs all day and villain has seen that then that makes the case he's shoving for value and you should fold...

So imo, this isn't so clear cut as it seems on the surface.

We need to know:
#1) Is this villain capable of taking this line with 97, T9, T8 type hands.
#2) what is your percieved image and how does villain see you
#3) What is your percieved image in terms of big river bets and stack offs

If the answer to #1 is yes and the answer to #2 is he sees you as nitty or weak-tight and #3 is you've been folding to big river bets and having played for stacks yet... then this is a clear call.

If the answer to #1 is no, then we can fold...

If the answer to #1 is maybe and #2 and #3 are the same as above then we can call...

so as always the answer is it depends...
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05-01-2013 , 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris
I guess the question is, what would we expect him to do with 97?

There are two OESDs on the flop, J9, and 97.

Is V going to blast the turn to $315 with J9?

On turn, pot is $150-ish and you lead out $100 and he c/r to $315, that's a big c/r. So to me, the question becomes, would this villain who you describe as "very good aggressive not afriad of running big bluffs..." would he take this line with 97.

if the answer is yes, then we can make a crying call.

If the answer is no, then we fold.

V is in the small blind and I don't see him limping TT so only real set combo he has here is 88.

Also, a very important piece of info that is missing is how villain percieves you. Have you been making big laydowns all day or have you been stacking off light?

If you have been folding to big river bombs all day and this is what villain has seen, then that makes the case he's trying to blow you off the hand so you should call. Conversely, if you have been calling big river bombs all day and villain has seen that then that makes the case he's shoving for value and you should fold...

So imo, this isn't so clear cut as it seems on the surface.

We need to know:
#1) Is this villain capable of taking this line with 97, T9, T8 type hands.
#2) what is your percieved image and how does villain see you
#3) What is your percieved image in terms of big river bets and stack offs

If the answer to #1 is yes and the answer to #2 is he sees you as nitty or weak-tight and #3 is you've been folding to big river bets and having played for stacks yet... then this is a clear call.

If the answer to #1 is no, then we can fold...

If the answer to #1 is maybe and #2 and #3 are the same as above then we can call...

so as always the answer is it depends...
#1 Villain is really good aggressive and definitely capable from what our mutual friends have told me, however, I have not seen so myself and he has definitely not done so the only two sessions I've played with him.

#2 Villain knows that I am a reg at this casino and has been told that I am one of the biggest winners in the game. Villain also knows I'm very thinking and will not pay off lite.

#3 I have not been stacking off light whatsoever and usually only show down the best hand. However, I did play a pot earlier with villain where I folded to a pot sized river bet of his in a spot where he definitely had to have it.
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