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2/5 Marginal spot with JJs UTG 2/5 Marginal spot with JJs UTG

06-04-2012 , 03:56 PM
Hero; $530, Havent won a pot in 2 hours stuck $270. Been raising with KQ AJ+ and just airballing every flop
Villian; $800 Playing & Opening a ton of hands but hasnt 3bet too much
Villian 1; $400 No true reads he had sat down 2 hands ago

Hero raises JdJx from UTG to $20, MP calls, Vil1 calls, Villian 3bets from the BB to $70.

* Seems like a generally low 3bet especially OOP

I elected to call, Vil 1 calls

Pot: $230
Flop: Qd-9d-5d

Villian bets $100, Hero calls, Vil1 folds

Pot: $430
Turn: Qd-9d-5d-2s

Villian shoves putting Hero all in..

Hero has $360 left

Let me start off by saying I generally try to keep myself out of marginal spots like this. I think calling preflop is "ok" since I thought a player behind me will call & I felt like I would double up if I hit my set. That being said its either Villian has AKdx or Im beat. Occasionally he could show up with 10-10 but only a small %.
2/5 Marginal spot with JJs UTG Quote
06-04-2012 , 04:12 PM
I think we have to fold here.

Villain most likely has the Ad or Kd, or he could easily have QQ for a set or even AdAx or KdKx.
2/5 Marginal spot with JJs UTG Quote
06-04-2012 , 05:47 PM
Seems like a pretty trivial fold, I'm not sure why you're posting this.

Judging by his small Preflop 3-bet oop against multiple people, it suggests he has a monster like AA and is begging to get called. (but you are playing live NL, so half the time no one knows what or why they are doing what their doing)

After the flop what do you beat? You're ahead of AK with a and that about it. And this hand has really good equity against you, everything else has you beat...
2/5 Marginal spot with JJs UTG Quote
06-04-2012 , 05:59 PM
id get it aipf or fold imo!

probably fold pre

Last edited by dhcg86; 06-04-2012 at 06:24 PM.
2/5 Marginal spot with JJs UTG Quote
06-04-2012 , 06:39 PM
Doesn't seem to be a profitable spot to set-mine pre-flop. However, it doesn't appear your intention was to set-mine as you elected to turn your JJ into a bluff catcher and call down. On the flop the aggression continues as your opponent bets into two people, seems strong? On the turn, the 2s doesn't change much in the dynamics of the hand and your opponent continues to tell his story. In fact, 2s seems like a good card for us. A lot of your opponents range that JJ did beat, what little of it there may be, has or had a reasonable amount of chances to catch up and overtake your hand. Seems like a dangerous spot to play hero. I'm not a fan of how this hand was played.
2/5 Marginal spot with JJs UTG Quote
06-04-2012 , 08:27 PM
If you have been as tight as you are representing, I think this is a fold pre. Once you call, the flop is a fold 100%. Not because we are set mining, but because we could be drawing to 2 outs a lot of the time and even our flush is good, we are gonna have to stack off to find out.

If player is decent and aware (more 2/5 players at my casino are than aren't) then he realizes you are raising UTG very tightly and is only raising value hands OOP.

Sometimes folding a lot makes use want to peel light even with hands like this because we are so sick of folding. Also, what does our hand look like when we call his flop bet and his raise pre? All that being told, I fold to the current action for sure.

If he is bullying you and shows, I say wow, you had two overs and change tables/leave a short time later.
2/5 Marginal spot with JJs UTG Quote
06-04-2012 , 08:43 PM
I really don't like the flop call, what do you beat? AK? Woopety do. As for preflop....I'm okay with it IFF the other callers are likely to call with you...but just barely. I probably wouldn't call.

Oh and I don't see why you would change tables lol, let the aggfishy bluff you OOP moar.
2/5 Marginal spot with JJs UTG Quote
06-04-2012 , 09:50 PM
Well played by villain

If you have JJ you don't want to see a multiway pot in this spot. When V 3bets to $70 if you call you are giving phenonmenal odds to the remaining villains to call, and there is no way in the world you want to see a 3bet pot go 4way. But at the same time, calling $50 just to see a flop "feels" like its giving you good odds when the reality it is not. It denies you the correct odds to set mine since the standard to set mine nowadays is 15:1 odds instead of the 11:1 that was the standard 5+ years ago.

It's also a nice 3bet by villain to get max value while at the same time V keeps his range wide. Folding seems too weak and 4betting seems spewy and calling seems like the best option but its incorrect...

Then there is the problem that your initial raise was only $20 so if you 4bet i'm not sure V will buy it as AA/KK, similarly, if we 4bet we fold out AK, AQ, the hands we do best against but keep in AA, KK...

The more I think about this, the more I've got to tip my hat to V.

Overall, I think you just got outplayed by villain through no real fault of your own. And I'd put Villains range as AK, AK, AQ, AA, KK, with the

in any event, against this range, you are crushed.

Overall, I think you played it okay, its just that V played this hand pretty damn well and I would make a mental note that this V might be pretty good and I'd look closely at the rest of his hands and showdowns.

The only you may have done different is to 4bet/fold pre, but if you 4bet and get smooth called and see this flop pot would be big enough for you to go ahead and turn your hand into a bluff and shove hoping for the diamond and also hoping your V doesn't have a diamond...

that's the only other way I could see this hand playing out.

As played, turn is an easy fold.
2/5 Marginal spot with JJs UTG Quote
06-05-2012 , 07:37 AM
Fold to the 3bet pre. It's just too marginal of a spot and your read has to be razor sharp that villain's range isn't weighted towards QQ+

Villain 3bets an UTG raise from the blinds, so can't assume his range is anything wider than the obvious, which has JJ crushed

A small 3bet can be interpreted two ways. He either doesn't want folds, or he wants to see if his big PP is up against AA (if hero were to 4bet)...Either scenario has JJ crushed way more than the chance he would do this with TT
2/5 Marginal spot with JJs UTG Quote
06-05-2012 , 07:51 AM
fold flop imo!
2/5 Marginal spot with JJs UTG Quote
06-05-2012 , 08:08 AM
What do you think about shoving flop? Conditional on not having turn bet information? Can we get vil to fold non diamond KK? How about AdKx or AxKd? Maybe even non-diamond AA? Any/all of these hands are pushing on the turn, but may not call a shove. And if villain has AxKx (statistically a large part of vil's range), we charge him to play (and most likely get a fold).

Of course, against AdAx, KdKx, QQ, we're toast, since they'll likely insta-call.

Without the turn bet information (results-oriented), I may ship.
2/5 Marginal spot with JJs UTG Quote

      
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