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2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r 2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r

10-01-2008 , 02:04 PM
I have played a lot with Villian in this hand. He's a wealthy retired guy who's an action junky. He loves action and big pots, if there's not enough at the table he'll quit and go shoot craps for $500 a roll. He probably plays 40-50% of his hands. He has $470 to start and I cover.

Preflop:
3 limpers, I make it 35 in CO with KK, Villian calls from BB, 1 limper calls.

Flop: T96r ($115)
Villian checks, limper checks, I bet 75, Villian c/r to 225, limper folds, Hero??

Villian has 210 left after the c/r. He has a wide range here: JJ, TT, 99, 66, QJ, T9, Tx, J8, 98, 97, 96, 87, 76 are all possible. He rarely makes moves like this with complete air, but he could have something like 44 or 65 and thinks I'm just c-betting whiffed overs. This is either a fold or a shove, if I just call, he's shoving the last 210 on the turn no matter what.
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote
10-01-2008 , 03:03 PM
seems like a super easy shove to me
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote
10-01-2008 , 04:21 PM
ya if he's that loose and agressive just shove... it's not like 2 pair is crushing you anyway
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote
10-01-2008 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
3 limpers, I make it 35 in CO with KK,
Has to be way more preflop once THREE people limp and you have THREE players behind you. $45 or $50 here minimum. I understand it seems like an overbet but you are making it way too easy for a limper to come along for the rider with a hand that has zero definition, then hammer you on a board like this.

As far as the flop, if his range is this wide, then we beat a ton of hands and lose to only 3 sets, T9, and 87 (he doesn't have AA here and it's unlikely he is in this spot with 96 or T6). This being the case, and given that you're playing one buy in effective stacks, move all in, live with the result.
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote
10-01-2008 , 08:33 PM
it's live
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote
10-01-2008 , 08:41 PM
Quote:
267,300 games 0.375 secs 712,800 games/sec

Board: Th 9s 6c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 64.482% 63.94% 00.55% 170903 1458.50 { KhKs }
Hand 1: 35.518% 34.97% 00.55% 93480 1458.50 { QQ-22, ATs, KTs, QTs+, J8s+, T5s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, ATo, KTo, QTo+, J8o+, T5o+, 96o+, 86o+, 76o }
You gave a range for the guy. Without being at the table, we can't tell whether that range is correct. Assuming it is correct, it's a pretty obvious shove, as every poster above has written and pokerstove is pretty clear on.

The key point of course is your analysis of his range. If he really is as loose as you say he is, then I'm not real sure why you'd be even thinking about this decision.
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote
10-01-2008 , 10:28 PM
with the range you stated I think you pretty much answered your own question, but for conformation easy shove
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote
10-02-2008 , 12:58 AM
I shove here all day.
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote
10-02-2008 , 11:43 AM
I realize that putting it all in with just an overpair isn't easy, but given stack sizes and villian's range in this case, I'd be happy doing it.
I agree with 2outsnoprob. PF raise with KK should have been in the $45-50 range after 3 limpers with 3 players remaining to act PF.
OP, where did this hand take place?... Think I might know villian.
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote
10-02-2008 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by awntilt75
I realize that putting it all in with just an overpair isn't easy, but given stack sizes and villian's range in this case, I'd be happy doing it.
I agree with 2outsnoprob. PF raise with KK should have been in the $45-50 range after 3 limpers with 3 players remaining to act PF.
OP, where did this hand take place?... Think I might know villian.
I tanked and wound up folding. If the c/r put the villian all in I definely would have called but the extra 200 made me think twice. I should have mentioned that while the Villian was loose and definitely not shy about putting money in a pot, he's not normally all that agressive. His standard play is usually to lead for like 1/2 the pot or c/c, that's why the c/r threw me. This was at the Argosy in Indiana btw.

Last edited by Tom1975; 10-02-2008 at 03:01 PM.
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote
10-02-2008 , 07:17 PM
WOW

Edit: You really have to stack off here 99% of the time imo. Is the buy in for this game a significant chunk of your BR? If this had an impact on your decision here, you should probably think about playing in a lower BI game until you have enough BI's that you can be comfortable getting your $$ in in a spot like this.
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote
10-02-2008 , 07:39 PM
If flops like this worry you when it comes to people flopping the nuts, or sets, etc, all the more reason to make it $45 preflop to cut down on the implied odds of hands like 66.
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote
10-03-2008 , 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom1975
This was at the Argosy in Indiana btw.
Nope, don't know him. I realize it was a long shot, but there's this well off business man that used to play 5-10 all the time around Vegas, who's now playing 2-5, that sounded a lot like villian.
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote
10-05-2008 , 09:05 PM
Find something better to do. Seriously. On how you described him, I stack off here like always, and get money to rebuy if needed.
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote
10-05-2008 , 09:12 PM
The one and only thing I needed to see was the fact that you are <100BB deep. The money's going in.

If villain is shoving 210 on any turn, you should consider calling now and on turn. The only difference between this and shoving, is that shoving might give him the chance to fold an inferior hand.
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote
10-06-2008 , 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxedIn
You gave a range for the guy. Without being at the table, we can't tell whether that range is correct. Assuming it is correct, it's a pretty obvious shove, as every poster above has written and pokerstove is pretty clear on.

The key point of course is your analysis of his range. If he really is as loose as you say he is, then I'm not real sure why you'd be even thinking about this decision.
This range is a joke. Not blaming you boxedIn since you just stoved it. Does anyone really think live players are check-raising less than all-in with 44 on this board. This is trips a big percentage of the time or a made straight.

An all-in call may not be bad, but I would fold and move on the the next hand. You just don't have alot of outs if you are behind and the fact that the straight could already be made makes me want to keep this pot small or get out. You could be drawing to runner-runner already.
2/5 Live:  KK facing flop c/r Quote

      
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