Relatively new to live NL. Would love to hear your opinion on this hand.

$2-$5 blind, everyone has about $500. I am in BB
UTG+1 limp, MP limp, button limp
My hand is AA

I raise to 35. UTG+1 and MP call, button fold

FLOP: K92

I bet 80. UTG+1 folds, MP raised to 180 (no info about opponent).
What is the correct line of play here? I ruled calling out as I will be out of position and basically pot committed for 2 more streets. Folding semed too weak which left me with only one option: raise all in. So I raised all in.

Is my thinking correct?
TIA

A call on the flop would mean you've put $215 of your $500 in the pot. So, I don't think I call here either. A normal reraise would put you all-in so it seems like the right play.

If I didn't have the As in my hand, I might stop 'n' go on a safe turn card.

Shove.

Standard shove.

I shove. Having the ace of spades just makes it even easier.

Having the A of spades should make it harder if anything, because it eliminates the possibility of the villain having the NFD.

Thanks for all the replies.

My opponent had 99 for a set of nines and busted me. As I think through the hand though I cannot imagine another way to play it. The reason I am troubled by this hand is that it looks like I made the classical beginner's mistake of getting all-in with just one pair and drawing very slim. These types of hands continue to give me a lot of trouble.

Sometimes, people will cooler you. Welcome to poker.

If you're not playing deep, then getting all-in with one pair isn't a big leak. At 100 big bets, you're starting to get deep enough that it's a problem.

MP called an additional $30 pre-flop to try to win ~$465. Clearly, his play is correct. But, he's only getting 15.5:1. Considering the times the flop comes 4,2,2 and he can't let go of his overpair, you'r doing okay.


I think we all agree your flop bet is correct.

Could the pre-flop raise be improperly sized? Generally speaking, you don't want to bloat the pot so that you're pot-committing yourself with a normal flop bet. Then again, the three-way nature of the pot is bloating the pot too.


In the end, this hand demonstrates the value of position. Even playing AA out of postion can lead to bad spots.

move to BBV buddy. This is where u make money in the very long run folding here. Minraising is missplayed by opp btw IMO, he he. But well. I shove here as well.

Good Luck.

Have you thought about taking the flop cheap and playing it by ear ? Playing your aces post flop by limping w/ bad position.

standard shove. but the fact that's there's 3 limpers combined w/ such a horrible position ater the flop i would've made it at least $50 PF.

We wouldn't want to get crazy and raise OOP with aces here. I mean, I check AA in the BB all the time. I mean, alphabetically, it's the right thing to do. AA in the BB, so I C/C.

Obviously.

I still shove, unless its a typical middle to elderly aged person whom I know only raises with made hands, in which case its an easy fold.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

52,470 games 0.005 secs 10,494,000 games/sec

Board: Ks 9s 2h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 52.844% 51.94% 00.90% 27255 472.50 { AdAh }
Hand 1: 47.156% 46.26% 00.90% 24270 472.50 { KK+, 99, 22, AKs, AsQs, AsJs, AsTs, As9s, As8s, As7s, As6s, As5s, As4s, As3s, As2s, KQs, K9s, QsJs, QsTs, Qs8s, JsTs, Js8s, Ts8s, AKo, KQo, K9o }

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

42,570 games 0.005 secs 8,514,000 games/sec

Board: Ks 9s 2h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.642% 52.53% 01.11% 22363 472.50 { AdAs }
Hand 1: 46.358% 45.25% 01.11% 19262 472.50 { KK+, 99, 22, AKs, KQs, K9s, QsJs, QsTs, Qs8s, JsTs, Js8s, Ts8s, AKo, KQo, K9o }

Edit: Obviously.

disagree. even at 100bb deep, 4bet shove should not be standard on this board.

villain's line: limp-call 7xBB PFR (after UTG+1 called) followed by a suspicious minimum check raise? unless villain is horrible, his line screams "SET."

what other hands (aside from complete air or spewy bluffs) does this line make sense on a Ks 9s 2h flop?

As Kx: possibly. but hero holds As.

AKo: possibly. but less likely since hero has AA.

QJs: possibly. but pretty aggressive hand to check raise.

KK: unlikely. villain limps KK from MP after another player already limped? probably not.

99/22: very reasonable.

if villain has AK, hero is way ahead. so 4bet folds out a WB hand, and loses value.

if villain has QJs, this push maybe makes sense. i prefer call, as villain only makes his hand 1 in 4 on the turn. moreeover, this is a super narrow range.

if villain has KK/99/22, hero is crushed and insta-called.

the flop is so dry that only AKo, sets, or total bluffs make sense. AKo (esp since hero has As) and total bluffs seem far less probable than sets. so why push?

accordingly, as played, call flop, check fold turn.

I was reading this post trying to decide if you had a valid argument. Then I read the end and vomited all over myself with disgust.

looks more like you vomited into pokerstove.

correction:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

16,830 games 0.031 secs 542,903 games/sec

Board: Ks 9s 2h

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.894% 45.89% 00.00% 7724 0.00 { AhAs }
Hand 1: 54.106% 54.11% 00.00% 9106 0.00 { KK, 99, 22, QJs, AKo }

[ ] This is a realistic range for villain
[ ] You should call flop, and check/fold turn with 46% equity.

Seriously, if someone ever disagrees with typical shove-line, everybody starts to go ape-**** in here and throw one liners like cheap school yard bullies.

c/min-raise=typically probably either a bet to find where he is or a set. A draw would probably push it to maximize the fold equity. I would probably shove this as well but still...

I give some credit to pepitos ideas. Reads would be nice too. Would this person limp/call AK pf? Why would he bloat the pot in position with KQ for example? Would he fire the turn again with AK since we're basically repping it?

All you guys are doing is to throw some hands into converter without even thinking how likely they are. Your range isn't that much better jjshababado to get arrogant. The fact that we're almost brake even this way playing with AmotherfkingA is the worst reason ever. Also I don't think the idea is not to play completely unabusable poker but to make the max out of the hands.

"Don't worry, you'll make 1 BB on average with aces anyways if you shove here"

Imaginary Friend, if you don't realize how horrible it is to call the flop with the intention of check folding the turn, you're totally welcome to play in my game anyday. Its not some advanced concept, its pretty damn basic.

Feel free to come up with a range. My ranges above were just to silence the people saying "obviously it would be better not to have the A of spades so villain might have the nut flush draws" but they're pretty reasonable for a 2/5 live opponent that we have no information about.

Yeah, but with hands would you min-raise that flop against unknown BB raiser showing this much strenght? 0 probably.

I also know it's abusable but he can't see our cards and he's repping a huge strength. We haven't shown weakness at any part of the pot so the chances of complete bluff is very low.

I'm saying that even with a small reads it should possible to call and re-evaluate the turn since this hand is like micro-nl25 deja vu hand which seems to be our opponents skill level as well. It's very, very unlikely that he even has AK in this situation. KQ maybe and that will shut down on the turn and will not call the push. So by pushing the worse hands fold and better call.

If he bets the turn, eehh fold if you have some reads. If he checks the turn, it's the easiest value-bet on the river.

With better reads the flop is probably foldable on a good day.

I have run into min-raising regs at mid-stakes but even them won't probably min-raise this flop with a weak draw since it hits our range perfectly and the typical reaction to min-raise would be a push after we have shown this much strength.

Question 1. What is the most probable range of hands that fit into Villain's pf play?

Question 2. What are the most probable range of hands that he's min-raising us on the flop after considering all the probable hands that he can play like that pf?

Now combine the Q1 and Q2 range that you get for the villain, which does not equal simple pokerstove range and you'll get something that villain could probably have here.

Question 3. Which of the hands from this new range will call our push?

So I got to agree, this is not a simple push.

well actually the range is only Q2 that we need to be consdered of.

Anyways, I like to roll hands backwards

My thoughts:
AK, very unlikely hand. We have 2 aces and still he needs flat pf twice with it. He could be min-raising it though and calling a push. I wouldn't even consider it.
KQ, possible. Min-raising to find out where he is. Will shut down on the turn. KQ will not call a push most probably. Also it will quite likely to shut down after the flop.
22, the most probable hand, typical way to play it pre. Will call a push and that min-raise looks like a set.
99, a lot of players would raise pf so it's not that likely as 22.
QTs, QJs, could be min-raising and will call a push. Still they're suited and AA leads them only like 57-43.
Other random crap; bluffs (very unlikely) K9... possible, maybe other flush draws. Gives some credibility for the push.

Conclusion: This is a set way too often (40%-50%) and I might even consider folding it if the villain bets turn. With reads it would be possible to fold it on the flop.

You don't consider AK a possibility? You don't think KQ is calling a push at least some of the time? You don't think its possible he's bluffing and would also bluff the turn? You do realize that on a turn push by villain we'd be getting almost 3:1? Villain could have a set 1/2 the time and it would still be a horrible fold on the turn.

We haven't even shown much strength. We raised preflop. We then bet the flop, something that many 2-5 live players will do 100% of the time after raising preflop.

Edit: Also, I don't think not shoving the flop is horrible. It has some merit, but only so far as to try and maximize value from slightly weaker hands. It has absolutely no merit if you're only doing it to avoid getting stacked when beaten.

I've shoved and folded in this spot, depending entirely on villain and reads. There are many live 2/5NL players who are simply never going to reraise you without very strong hands, so it is possible to find a fold here. I never call this out of position.