2/5NL at Hustler, Live. (Is this the correct forum?)


No strong reads, hero has been at table only 2 orbits.


Hero is dealt: 97 on the BUTTON

Effective stacks $300ish.

UTG folds, UTG+1 limps, folds to a loose player limps in CO who limps, Hero raises to 25, SB folds, BB calls, limpers both call.


FLOP: K 8 5

BB bets 20, UTG+1 raises to 40, CO folds, HERO:


1) Pushes
2) Smooth calls, re-evals turn.
3) Raises some other amount, say to 100
4) Folds


AB

Limp pre. Raising 10% of your stack w/ 9 high against people who aren't folding is pretty bad. As played, clear shove.

Let's say I limped, is the flop still a shove.

Reason I ask - I can't get this hand exactly straight in my head regarding preflop (didn't have my notebook) and I can't recall exactly if this was a raise PF or a call. One reason I think I raised was to isolate the loose/passive player in the CO whom I felt I could outplay post flop.

regardless of pot size, are we ever not pushing here? Do we have fold equity against UTG+1? Do we need fold equity with all our outs?




AB

i'm in favor of a limp pre or a bigger raise.

i think you have to fold to this action, you're drawing dead or to the gut a lot of the time, and even still your hand becomes face up if you flat.

raising folds out better hands a lot but gets you all in w/ 40% or less equity a lot more.

I was thinking 45% Equity against his range if he calls - with the money in the pot there is an equity edge, no?

AB

well, possibly but i think thats optimistic

Just stoved it - worse case he has a set, and we're 33% if he has a set. If he has a but flush draw we are 28%.

Hmmm. If we shove, is he calling with a flush draw? I think we have fold equity against a flush draw, though none against a set. and some against TPTK hands.

Is our fold equity + 33% equity against a set here enough for a push?

AB

the UTG+1 minraise is weird to me, he's obviously laying favorable odds (3:1) for you to call and even better for UTG to complete. could also be a cheap way to snap off a suspected stop and go bluff from UTG, but seems unlikely without more history.

it seems to me UTG+1 is trying to define his hand here, if you call he can reasonably put you on a draw, if you raise you have set, 2 pair, or semibluffing with 40%+ equity. likewise for UTG (although he could call with a lot for only 20)

if you believe UTG+1's range here has a solid portion weaker than a set (which i do), then, you obviously have material fold equity with him. the a priori chance of someone showing up with AXss in either seat is really low, and i think you have fold equity vs any other ss combination. UTG will fold more often than not i think

stick it in and shake 'n bake

You bet $20 in to a $105 dollar pot and got raised...isnt that exactly what you wanted with a ******ed bet like that?? If you werent making that bet to get raised then you should have just checked behind and taken the free turn card. I like a bet of at least $70 here and shoving if met with a raise. i mean when raising pre with a hand like that this is about as good of a flop as we can hope for, that isnt already made right?

this

I think shoving and smooth calling are both fine but I would lean towards smooth calling here. A lot of players at this level only minraise with monster hands.

******. read the action again. I didn't bet 20 on the friggen flop, the BB did. I was on the button.

AB

Calm down, my bad. Just read it wrong.

with effective stack sizes i dont see how u can not shove it. u basicly have the perfect amount to semibluff shove here

Yea, that's what I realized after

Shove given the pot size and the fact that this is your only chance to:
A) guarantee seeing two more streets
B) have a shot at not going broke to a higher flush draw

People don't have a set here often enough to justify you folding because you fear one.

pf raise just not big enough.. either limp or raise to $35-40 and also do it when you got QQ/KK/AA to balance. nobody is going to fold to your $25 raise and you dont even have 89s. also you are only 60bbs deep you could just throw 97s away even.

flop is whatever, fact is if you shove you only get called by hands that are in front of you but you have no choice because you're so shallow here, and if you smoothcall then you've just invested what, over 1/5th of your stack on a hand like this which is not good.

the whole hand went wrong pf imho.