I posted this last night in the Small Stakes forum, but all the live 2/5 hands seem to be here, hence the double post.


Here's a hand I played at the Bellagio last year. I don't play much full-ring, and I assume this is standard, but I'd like to make sure.

Folds around to the Button, who's on his first orbit, so no reads, but he doesn't look like a maniac. Button raises to 25, I make raise to 80 with 99. BB folds, button moves all-in and it's 340 to me, I fold.

seems bad, just call the raise

^^^^^^^^^^^^

What hands should we be 3-betting in this spot?

stack sizes? i'd just call, but i play mid pocket pairs like a little girl

like the reraise preflop and the fold. looks good.

He has 420, I have 500.

this play is fine/std.

its neither fine nor standard

its fine, but in a live game they'll stack off vs ur set EZ so its not really necessary

i would like to hear an analysis of what is fine or standard about 3-bet folding 99.

and no "to see where i stand" and "to put them to a decision" are both unacceptable

I assume you have villain covered?

In these situations I generally would just call the raise and re-evaluate on the flop.

If I hit the set then I'm aiming to stack him. If he has any sort of hand it should be easy to do.

To feel comfortable playing mid pocket pair postflop though (absent of hitting a set), I'd require a better read on villain.

-G

wow u really need to be calling this

will you accept to put them to a decision FOR ALL MY CHIPS

So do you all play TT the same way? JJ?
Where's the line drawn, and why? 99 is a reasonably high pocket pair to be playing only for a set against a button open.

the thing is assuming he was betting that on the button with a two big cards hand... and he just calls your 3-bet.... what flop are you gonna like (besides a set)

basically your gonna lead out and only take it down if he misses... so you might as well have a suited connector if you catch my drift

I understand what you're saying, but I'm asking -- do you also just call with TT? JJ? Playing those only to hit a set? Because with those also, you're not going to get that many more flops that you definitely like.

I don't think it's accurate to say you might as well have a suited connector just because you'll be cbetting. Given a reraise if rags come, he might get stubborn with overcards, and you're way more ahead with a pocket pair than with suited connectors. And of course, you hit a set way more often than something with a suited connector (e.g. two pair or better).

I understand that it's a tough and marginal play, oop with a hand like 99. There will be many flops where you won't necessarily know where you stand. So I'm just clarifying, where do you draw the line? I think QQ is a definite reraise, but I'm unclear what you think we should do with JJ and TT.

please god stop saying "playing only to hit a set" its putting me on massive tilt

lol this thread is a huge fail

Maybe it's a bit weak, but with zero read on villain my first thought would be "well let's see if I can hit a set on this dude". Is this guy a tourist, is this guy tricky, a pro, fish? It all makes a difference on how you're gonna treat differently textured flops. In a total vacuum I'm hoping for a set so I can safetly play at this unknown and figure out what type of player he is while risking very little myself.

"set value" is so 2005

It depends on your read of the Villain. If he is a tight BTN opener (AJ+, 88+, KQ, KJs), then I would just call the PF raise. If he is a LAG BTN opener (A7o+,A3s+, 22+, KTo+, QTs-Q9s, JTs-J9s, T9s), then I would often 3bet 99 against him.

It really is just a question of how far ahead you are against his range. If you are way ahead of his range, then go ahead and 3bet. If you are not way ahead of his range, then just call the PF raise.

In this case, given your limited reads, I would probably assume that I am not way ahead of his range, so I would flat his PF raise here.

.

You hit a set approximately 12% of the time with a PP. With a suited connector, you hit two pair+, 12+ outer approximately 12% of the time. Your equity when you hit is generally higher with a set, but they both hit something about the same about of time. In fact, you will hit two plus+, 8+ outer approximately 25% of the time. I got this from Goofy's post about calling raises with speculative hands.

I think it's a decent question. I hate playing out of position. I don't think 3-betting pocket pairs against steal raises is that big of a mistake if it even is a mistake. Since we are in a live 2-5NL game, I might be tempted to call from the SB, because when I've played 2-5NL live, it's been the lowest NL in the casino, and the players have been very bad. In an online game, I might play pure 3-bet/fold out of the blinds. I'm not sure. This has been something I've been thinking about recently.