5 handed, 2/5

V ($600, UTG): Very limpy, passive rec. Sitting to Hero's immediate right. Frequently limp/folding to Hero's preflop raises, calls sometimes. After limp/calling, he frequently likes to donk bet to keep the pot small. I raised one of his donks earlier OTF which he called, and donked small again OTT where I just gave up with air. In another hand, he limp/called $20 pre: Flop Q45cc, V c/c $35, Turn 8x c/c, River 6c V bets $55, Hero raises to $155, V folds.

Onto the hand:

V limps UTG, Hero ($700) raises to $20 with 88, BTN calls, V calls

Flop ($65): 7h7s4s
V checks, Hero bets $40, BTN folds, V calls

Turn ($145): Tc
V donks $50, Hero calls

River ($245): Qd
V donks $50, Hero ???

Was the turn misplayed?

I'm raising turn almost always - make it $130-175 depending on your mood. Player like this never comes back over the top as a bluff. Don't allow him to set his price for draws. Call river.

We know how the V likes to bet, but you really didn't give us a range of holdings. Does he tighten up UTG?

The Turn donk could be to protect a flush draw/2 overs and the River bet is just that size because the board is paired and you 'might' have a 7 ... or does he have a 7x?

Does V ever show down air when betting this way? If so, then I would go with the raise route again perhaps. If he has Qs then he probably will call, 10s is a maybe.

Stick to a pattern that works? ... without too much more information I would probably call or raise again here with a lean towards the call since you already raised once before. Until you know more about his range (and we do as well) you need to mix up calls and raises until V proves that he has the goods more than not in these spots. GL

^^^ We don't know what he's doing this with because he hasn't shown down anything yet. But it's quite like he wouldn't play 7x this way. The question is, is he willing to lay down his FD ott to a raise given Hero's image and the previous donk/call especially if that 10 helped him? Maybe we need to raise to like $200 to make him fold Txss? And even then, he might just spite-call, which then compels us to shove any non-spade rivers.

Do you really think Txss is folding to a $130 raise and to a maniac Hero? Almost never imo.

Raise river to $220.

Such a weird line...he knows he can bet/fold weak-ish hands versus you. Problem is we don't know if he's strong enough or not. I call down just to see WTF he's taking this line with, plus we only need to be good 1/6 times in order for a river call to be +EV.

The river is weak. I'm not personally not raising him on any street as the only hands we beat are draws and I don't see him folding a 10. Depending on player I fold the river. $50 river is rarely a bluff, and I don't see much we can beat. It feels like he wants to get his 10 to showdown as cheaply as possible. So it feels like 10x of spades.

To me, this would be similar to another recent post with a donker. If I'm calling turn, I'm calling a reasonable river, and $50 is more than reasonable. I'm with DeathCabForTootie: WTF is going on and 1/6 is worth it.

Why?

We just button clicking?
For value?
As a bluff?


Odd hand. Call river. Next hand.
Not losing out on much value with a call, (if any). Plus we get to see his hand. Which should help define his donk bets.

Your line looks good if you called the river. V's big leak seems to be betting too small, but it is hard to tell as he hasn't shown down much. Still, I doubt he flopped a set or house given his flop and turn play.

His likely range, in order of likelihood, on the turn: small/mid pairs we beat, mid pairs we don't, FD's, 10-x, and 4-x. Flatting the turn w/ 88 against this is perfect. Raising is value owning spew.

By the river, FD's become very unlikely. (Just maybe A-x clubs trying to get to showdown but nothing else.) Still, given pot odds, calling (and nothing else) is mandatory.

I just don't see why you would want to turn your pockets 8's into a bluff or go nuts with it for value on the turn or after.

Hero called and V flipped over T3ss.

I feel the best play is to raise turn big as V is not tricky enough to play 7x this way and not stationy enough to call a monster raise with a FD OTT.

Villans seems to just be blocker bet happy. What I think is clear is that he just never has a monster here. On the flop Im ok with Flatting but on turn with his lol sizing I want to take control of the hand. I like a raise to 175 or 200. This is to get value from his random draws like 65 flish draws etc. Then I plan on checking back river unless we bink river. As played I think we must call river, I'm kind of expecting us to be notched her by like 99 or JJ. Villan just seems to be trying to set his price for a show down so we may be ahead some of the time. We can then determine his flop donking range.

Edit: might be one of the rare times I force villan to show his hand if he mucks.

What lol? Gotta give us a little more than that, this just sounds flat it bad.

^^ V c/c'd flop. Also, that T seems to have helped him so I'm not sure if we're raising turn for value or as a bluff. Also, if we put him on Txss, we must shove non-spade rivers imo.

I think he meant turn, lol.

Why do we assume the 10 helped him? He is betting even smaller relative to the pot size on the turn. When we raise turn think a few better hands fold and we charge draws. It's a weird spot but I feel like he doesnt have many 10s in his range.

My mistake, misread I guess. So that would give us the assumption he has a 10 in his hand. Then is likely change my initial response and say to bomb river basically as a pure bluff. Kind of a frustrating spot but if we apply enough pressure villan will likely fold.

But what are we repping by bombing the river if we just flatcalled turn? Our story makes no sense.

With your image this is flat bad. Even bad players are going to hero call you alot with a 10.

Take a page from a Lag (with no fold equity ever). Make a hand and bet big 3 streets. Over bet alot of rivers. You will get paid and show huge winrate.

When passive players start to play back. Let them. Give them no action unless you have the goods. Value bet super thin. A bad image is a Buetiful thing sometimes, but if your gonna run stupid bluffs (we have showdown value here), then you will get crushed.

LOL... Nobody is betting 1/5 pot with a value hand so I feel its a good spot to turn a medium strength hand into a bluff!

This advice was prior to reading the outcome of the hand.. Like i said, villain is trying to get to showdown cheaply... turn your medium strength hand into a bluff spot.